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Huge yank shite - MOT passed, but...


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#31 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 11:58 AM

Thanks guys, just had a play about with this. Got the car up to full temp and I've raised the idle speed a bit. So far it hasn't cut out when in gear. Once D or R is selected the revs drop a bit (as to be expected) and it continues running. I've even tried putting it in D and sitting with my foot on the brake for about 5 mins and it still won't stall or run rough. Fingers crossed that's cured it!

The coil is in a really stupid place on these. Sat directly on top of the engine and fairly close to an exhaust manifold too! I'll get a new one anyway and make up a new mounting bracket to go on the drivers inner wing, well away from heat. I'll have to extend the low tension wires and get a new longer king lead aswell. Even if it's not causing trouble now, moving it is definitely a good idea.

Thanks for the links junkman, that's the carb that it had originally. I don't know why it was changed. I have heard though the original carbs aren't all that good though? I don't have any experience of these big yank carbs to know!? Are Edelbrock carbs not any good then?

I've got to get an alternator for it aswell as it's not charging very well, 11.6v! The battery is new.
Has anyone ever had or used a 'flamethrower' coil? A suitable V8 one is available fairly easily and I've heard they give very strong sparks too compared to oem ones. Is it worth it or just get another standard part?

Stunning.I bet when you nail it the back end squats, it roars its nuts off - but doesn't actually pull that hard.There was a metallic blue Marquis at Cholmondeley that looked like it could eat everything else in sight and still drive home at the end of it all.

It's great to drive, but it's more of a big cruiser than anything. The big V8 is pretty lazy, it's nothing like the muscle cars of the time. When nailed, the front lifts up and it goes ok, but it is a very big, heavy old lump and it feels like it to drive! If you give it good rev when sat idling the body twitches and shakes though, it's awesome!
Was the blue one at Cholmondeley a 2 door version, I've seen one at a show somewhere, it's either a P or R reg?
1973 Mercury Marquis Brougham 429 V8
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1984 Ford Transit 2.0 100L LWB high roof
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#32 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 12:22 PM

My view would be if the standard coil is capable of igniting the mixture at high loads and rpm, there's no benefit to a performance coil. If you're increasing the rev limit then you'd need a coil with a faster cycle time, otherwise it'll fire before peak voltage and may not ignite the mixture. Similarly, if you're increasing the compression ratio, you need a higher voltage to jump the same spark gap. But for a standard engine, I wouldn't worry although moving it to a cooler location can't hurt!


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#33 OFFLINE   Noel Tidybeard

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:17 PM

seems that an edelbrock carb is a better bet than a holleyhttps://answers.yaho...19072050AAy8e10


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#34 OFFLINE   cort1977

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:58 PM

Junkman, Is that the general view then, that the Edelbrock is not much good?  

 

I was thinking of eventually swapping out the carb, inlet manifold and heads on my Pontiac and I liked the look of the Edelbrock stuff as it will all fit together out of the box.   My car is a 74 with the 455ci so down on power from earlier years and plan is to de-smog it a little.

 

Sorry for the thread hijack Dan...


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#35 OFFLINE   RedSparrow

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:22 PM

What a barge! EPIC.


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#36 OFFLINE   xtriple

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:39 PM

I thought Edelbrock stuff was supposed to be chuffing good gear?  But then, I know the square root of sweet FA about Yank motors. Do like this barge though!



#37 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:41 PM

Junkman, Is that the general view then, that the Edelbrock is not much good?  
 
I was thinking of eventually swapping out the carb, inlet manifold and heads on my Pontiac and I liked the look of the Edelbrock stuff as it will all fit together out of the box.   My car is a 74 with the 455ci so down on power from earlier years and plan is to de-smog it a little.
 
Sorry for the thread hijack Dan...

 
 

I thought Edelbrock stuff was supposed to be chuffing good gear?  But then, I know the square root of sweet FA about Yank motors. Do like this barge though!


I'm no expert on these things either! The impression I got was that Edelbrock are like the US version of Weber. If the original carb is shit (like Ford vv) you go get a Weber replacement and it works. I assume in the US if your original carb is shit you go get an Edelbrock!?
From what I've read on the interweb Edelbrock seem pretty well regarded over in the states?
Like I said I'm no expert, this is the first US vehicle I've had so its a learning curve for me.

In other news, I got the old duff alternator out, eventually. Every bolt was seized solid, all came out bar the longest one which holds the mounting bracket and alternator to the block. It's a steel bolt going through alloy casting so it 'grown' together! I had to cut the bolt in half to get it out and even on the bench with big hammers and a blowtorch the seized end still won't come out.
The credit cards going to take another beating tonight on Rock Auto!
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#38 OFFLINE   Bren

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:50 PM

Edelbrock are supposed to be better than the like of holley.

The weber 4 barrel for the rover v8 is allegedly an edelbrock item.

#39 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 05:31 PM

11.6 v ain't charging at all . A good battery gives 12.6 static.
Another little job for you . Lovely motor tho so well worth the hassle . So far .

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#40 OFFLINE   Taff

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 05:47 PM



 

 

It runs very well now but still not completely sorted as it is still cutting out when hot. It starts well cold or hot, and when its cold or warm it goes into gear and continues to run and can be driven. But when its hot and been running a while you put it into D or R and the idle drops very low, then it starts spluttering and struggling to keep running, then it dies!, but will always start straight up afterwards. If you quickly shift it back to P or N the idle picks straight up again and it runs perfectly.

Im wondering if its fine when cold or warm because the choke (auto) is still on and increasing the idle speed, but once its hot and choke is off the idle speed is too low so when drive or reverse are taken up the revs drop too low for it? Possible?

The other theory is that the coil, which sits on top of the engine is fine when cool but as the engine gets hot it overheats or has a crack in it which opens up when it gets hot, so the spark becomes too weak?

Anyone think thats bullshit or have any other ideas?

 

top motor, everyone should have a yanktank in their life at least once, when I'm PM it will become law.

 

I've got a '59 Galaxie with the 292 Y-block and have similar problems with running.

Starts easily,

runs well, drives around the farm where it is stored with no problems,

gets a little bit warm and, when dropped into D or R, it bogs and you have to be quick to prevent it stalling.

 

Stock carb, new (stock) coil (mounted above the RH cylinder head), electric fuel pump and separate regulator (old cam driven pump was fuct & no replacements when I needed one).

 

any suggestions? (and apols for hijacking your great thread but us barge owners must stick together)

 

piccy

 

galaxie5457_3.jpg


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so, it's 2am & I'm driving past prostitutes in short strappy dresses with bare arms and legs. I want to stop and offer them 10 minutes in a heated car, but no police officer is going to believe that.


#41 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:00 PM

Taff, if you ever run for PM you get my vote just on that one policy!

 

Ive spent some time googling this problem and so far found shit loads of possibilities unfortunatly! Ranging from stupid things upto more serious issues like locked torque converters etc!

 

I assume your mix is right, and the timing is set?

Also check for split or loose vacuume pipes, due to the age of your Galaxie id imagine there wont be too many to check but this can affect the running, especially when under load (like shifting from P or N into D or R.)

Is the idle speed set right? I adjusted mine today and so far it seems to have worked! I ran in P until the engine was nice and hot (off choke) then sped up the idle speed slightly.

Is the oil level in the autobox ok, overfilled may labour the engine when hot?

Check all petrol hoses, im going to re route a few of mine away from the top of the engine/exhaust manifolds to stop fuel evaporating. Maybe its a good enough supply for sitting at idle but when under load and hot it needs more fuel and possibly isnt getting enough due to fuel evoporation or blockage?

 

Id consider moving the coil if yours is mounted in the same position as mine over the engine. I touched the coil on mine today some hour or so after it had been turned off and the bottom (facing engine) was still hot! This wont do the coil much good. Im going to move mine across onto the drivers side inner wing, extending the wires to stop this becoming a problem in future.

 

Thing is with this problem, it cant be anything serious as the car drives fine when cooler and runs fine normally so its got to be something stupid!?

 

Keep us updated on how you get on/what the cause and fix were, id be interested to know.


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#42 OFFLINE   Taff

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:57 PM

mate, easiest way to reply was to copy your text and then put responses alongside in red, that make sense? here goes!

 

I assume your mix is right, and the timing is set?  no idea, haven't touched either. a "supposed" carb specialist has had a play with it, and it's had a rebuild kit put into it, along with a thourough cleaning, but no idea if the mix is right or not. Timing hasn't been touched since it arrived, and as it starts and idles extremely well, I haven't touched this.

I'm a diesel fitter by trade and these carbs are black magic to me. I dismantled it carefully, didn't lose anything and cleaned it to within an inch of it's life before rebuilding it.

 

Also check for split or loose vacuume pipes, due to the age of your Galaxie id imagine there wont be too many to check but this can affect the running, especially when under load (like shifting from P or N into D or R.). vacuum pipe is ok, there is only the one on this car.

 

Is the idle speed set right? I adjusted mine today and so far it seems to have worked! I ran in P until the engine was nice and hot (off choke) then sped up the idle speed slightly. sounds a little high to me but if I lower it, the cars splutters and, when warmed up, dies a lot sooner.

 

Is the oil level in the autobox ok, overfilled may labour the engine when hot? all good, and new oil too, along with a filter. if I nail it at full revs, she will spin the tyres a little, so there is bags of power in there

 

Check all petrol hoses, im going to re route a few of mine away from the top of the engine/exhaust manifolds to stop fuel evaporating. Maybe its a good enough supply for sitting at idle but when under load and hot it needs more fuel and possibly isnt getting enough due to fuel evoporation or blockage? hard pipe all the way (single run, too. that was fun!) apart from a short stretch at the front which has the fuel regulator in it. This is new hose and as far away from the exhaust as possible.

 

Id consider moving the coil if yours is mounted in the same position as mine over the engine. I touched the coil on mine today some hour or so after it had been turned off and the bottom (facing engine) was still hot! This wont do the coil much good. Im going to move mine across onto the drivers side inner wing, extending the wires to stop this becoming a problem in future. agree, and it will get moved in due course. Again though, I can't help but think that Ford put it there and it was fine for years?

 

Thing is with this problem, it cant be anything serious as the car drives fine when cooler and runs fine normally so its got to be something stupid!? also agree. it ticks over soooooo sweetly, whatever is causing this can't be that serious. maybe it just needs a good, long blast. it hasn't been driven properly since 1973, and it was seized when it arrived


so, it's 2am & I'm driving past prostitutes in short strappy dresses with bare arms and legs. I want to stop and offer them 10 minutes in a heated car, but no police officer is going to believe that.


#43 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 03:30 PM

A little update if anyones still interested.

 

I finally managed to get the new alternator on today, its a remanufactured item but seems ok.

 

2014-10-02152942_zpse038b359.jpg

 

Heres the old one, which im 99% sure is the original item (car has only done 83K). It was utterly siezed solid on the big long mounting bolt so that had to be undone as much as I could then sliced in half with a hacksaw just to get it out of the car! the threaded end then simply wound out of the block by hand!

I tried to get the remains of the bolt out so I could rebuild the old alternator but after soaking in penetrating oil, beating with a hammer and drift and attacking it with a blow torch it still wouldnt budge and the alloy casting is starting to crack and deform so its scrap unfortunatly.

The new one was cheap, although postage from the US bumped the price up (cant win can you!?) that went straight in with a new bolt picked up from a nearby old-school DIY type shop. They have everything in there, even old whitworth stuff all on the shelf!

 

2014-10-19115710_zpsfc92116a.jpg

 

Heres the new one fitted. Along with the alternator I replaced the two battery leads as they were badly corroded and the insulation all splitting.

 

After that, try starting it, and... the new battery is flat!! the little condition inspection window is now black and voltage is 11.6V so id say the new battery is a dud. It starts with a jump but even after its been running for a while the battery still wont hold voltage! I even left the car sat with the battery disconnected from before so any drains wouldnt flatten it, so the battery must be defective somehow. Ill have to get it changed under warrenty.

However once jump started it ran well. I changed the PCV valve and seal aswell which seems to have made it run a bit smoother. The old one was a bit sticky and the seal had gone hard and loose fitting so was probably losing vacuum pressure, only costs a couple of quid for new ones too. Ive also changed the inline fuel filter as that was full of brown crap and clearly pretty old.

 

Hopefully with a good battery it should be good to go. If only it wasnt nearly winter and the weather wasnt constantly shit!


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#44 OFFLINE   They_all_do_that_sir

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 06:44 PM

Duff battery + duff alternator might = poor spark under load?

It might* run better now
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#45 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:40 PM

Duff battery + duff alternator might = poor spark under load?

It might* run better now

Fingers crossed! When I did get it running from the jump set it was very noticably smoother and sounded much better than it did before, even revving the engine was free from hesitation and roughness it had before. I could of taken it out for a run today but I darent with the battery being shit! The last thing I want is to cut out for some reason and not be able to restart the thing, then end up having to get recovered (again!).

The draw on the starting is so much that even with my jump starter fully charged it can just about manage 2 starts on this car before going flat itself!!

 

Still, if I cant drive it ill just have to look at it instead! I still love it and have no regrets!! :-D

 

026-XL_zpsd6b40614.jpg

 

061-XL_zps288ac80f.jpg


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#46 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 08:12 PM

Duff battery + duff alternator might = poor spark under load?

It might* run better now

 

Does it have an electronic ignition kit fitted? I've known Lumenition to be sensitive to supply voltage, and no spark if this drops below a certain level. (This was magnified by voltage drop in the ignition switched supply it was taking its feed from).



#47 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 08:22 PM

Huge wow! Love the car, love the colour and a great thread. Looking forward to you getting it resolved.

 

Another thing to add to the bucket list, damn you.


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#48 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 09:22 PM

Does it have an electronic ignition kit fitted? I've known Lumenition to be sensitive to supply voltage, and no spark if this drops below a certain level. (This was magnified by voltage drop in the ignition switched supply it was taking its feed from).

 

No, its still running the old points and condenser. I did consider getting an electronic set up to replace the points with but, tbh is it really worth it on this car? Its not likely to be covering many miles so maybe just as well stick with points?


1973 Mercury Marquis Brougham 429 V8
1974 Ford Capri 1.6 L
1984 Ford Transit 2.0 100L LWB high roof
1988 Volvo 740 2.3 GLE estate

#49 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 09:47 PM

There'll be no performance advantage over a well set up points and condenser system, but there will be small benefit as the points wear and hence not perfectly gapped any more. Whether this is significant or even noticeable I don't know! On engines sat for a while I've had the points sticking together so an electronic ignition kit may be more reliable.

 

On the flip side there's potentially more to suddenly fail, and I've heard of people where it's failed a lot quicker than expected. I'd probably be inclined to fit one, but keep the points in the glovebox. Up to you...



#50 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:37 AM

Check your engine earth leads too. If its struggling to turn over, it may be tired or corroded leaads/ terminals. Easiest check is a jump lead from block to negative terminal; to see if that helps.

I'd replace them with a couple of chunky leads , just in case
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#51 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:56 AM

Ive checked the points and they appear to be ok/possibly fairly recently replaced. Theres no burning or pitting on them and they are clean. Im leaning towards leaving them alone, for now I think. My Capri and Transit both still have points and they never have any trouble, aside from the inevitable re adjusting the gap at every service, so ill leave them and see how it goes once I can get some miles put on it. I always try to keep a spare good set and a condenser in the cars anyway just incase!

 

The earth straps do look old and a bit ropey, but seem to work ok. I will probably make a couple of new ones from thick copper braid with a couple of lugs, and add them aswell as the old ones. Cant do any harm to have a few more.

When I changed the Negative battery lead the contact surface where it bolts to the engine block was pretty dirty and surface rust on it. Its cleaned up to bare metal ok and ive used a thin smear of electrical conductive contact grease to keep any damp and corrosion away.


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1973 Mercury Marquis Brougham 429 V8
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#52 OFFLINE   AldridgePrior

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:42 PM

Awesome thread. I've had a few yanks and love em.
I had a '99 Z28 with a manual T56 box. Seriously rapid car. It was basically a B&Q bathtub with a 5.7 V8.
350 hp is not to be sniffed at in a plastic car. The interior was shockingly cheap but it was somewhere to sit.
I took it to France. All the way to the west coast shitting myself that it would overheat in the hot summer.
I loved it and I'd have another in a flash.

I,ll stick up a picture when I get back home. I,m on my chinese copy iphone.
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Was there ever a Keyser Soze?

.....and like that, he's gone.

#53 OFFLINE   AldridgePrior

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:45 PM

 One of the very few cars I regret selling.

 

WP_20130721_004_zps22d4c518.jpg

 

WP_20130804_013_zpsd0903c06.jpg

 

copiii_zpsc8e548bf.jpg

 

 

I drove the big Camaro Z28 to France without a front plate too. I had only replaced the power steering  pump pulley the day before. The drive belt had been squeaking for  a week or two and it wasn`t till I looked that I saw the pulley wobbling all over the shop. I waited a fortnight on the pulley and a special pulling tool and a belt coming from the states and they arrived a day before my trip.

 Near the west (St Nazaire) I heard screeching in heavy traffic. Shitting my pants, I pulled over. It was crickets in the undergrowth. Flapping bastard lol.


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Was there ever a Keyser Soze?

.....and like that, he's gone.

#54 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 02:55 PM

Nice! There's a red one of these Z28's I keep seeing driving around near where I live. Lovely looking and sounding!
1973 Mercury Marquis Brougham 429 V8
1974 Ford Capri 1.6 L
1984 Ford Transit 2.0 100L LWB high roof
1988 Volvo 740 2.3 GLE estate

#55 OFFLINE   AldridgePrior

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:15 PM

Nice! There's a red one of these Z28's I keep seeing driving around near where I live. Lovely looking and sounding!

 

I`ve been looking for another. I had been looking to replace my Jeep and wanted a Chevy V8. I had looked for literally months for the right car and the above came up for sale. The very NIGHT I got it home I made the stupid mistake of looking online to see if there was `anything else`.

 Just advertised. A manual 6 speed 2002 35th Anniversary SS model with 7000 miles on the clock. Minted, show/collectors car. Ok, it was 4 grand more than I paid but I would have found the money, a bank loan, whatever. A keeper if I ever saw one.


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Was there ever a Keyser Soze?

.....and like that, he's gone.

#56 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 11:10 PM

Had another play with this again this weekend.

The new battery arrived. I decided to go for the biggest, good quality battery I could find instead of being a cheapskate like with the previous battery. Hooked it up and it fired up straight away.
Checked the charge and all is good, at last! It's on the button now and runs beautifully!

So the next job was the cooling system.
I drained the old coolant, refilled with plain water and a can of cooling system flush and left it running for half an hour.
It was drained down again, the water had some crap in it but it looked pretty good. It was flushed through with plain water a couple more times just to get as much of the old crud etc out as possible before being refilled with new coolant.

While it was running I let it get as warm as possible and put it into gear but sat there with it in D and foot brake holding it still. It doesn't appear to be cutting out anymore, and the revs seem to stay strong so hopefully that annoying problem is over now.

It seems to of turned a corner now after a lot of time and new parts. So far all the evidence I've found points to the last time it saw the road being almost 20 years ago, in 1995! The dealer I got it from did some recommissioning to get it running again but clearly it needed more! It's to be expected really that things that have sat unused for so long will start to fail when made to work again.
The plan now is to get some miles on it and see what happens. There's also a few little bits of paintwork that will need sorting. But it seems to be going well so far.
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1973 Mercury Marquis Brougham 429 V8
1974 Ford Capri 1.6 L
1984 Ford Transit 2.0 100L LWB high roof
1988 Volvo 740 2.3 GLE estate

#57 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 11:50 PM

It's on the button now and runs beautifully!

 

I am disappointed. There's no video evidence of this! 6/10, must try harder.


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#58 OFFLINE   hauserplenty

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 01:18 AM

The best way to fix stalling problems is to get a qwalitee tachometer and a golf tee. idle for 5-10 minutes to get the engine hot. Remove the vacuum advance hose from the dizzy and plug it with the golf tee. Set idle to label spec. (If no label 750-850).
THEN:
Turn the lights,(hi-beams) wipers and blower motor on as loud as they'll all go. Increase idle if necessary. This way you can compensate for engine wear. Works for me! It's advidsble to have a timing light connected; first set the timing, then the curb idle.

Edelbrock carbs are THA SHIZZLE YO and I see no reason not to use one on the Green Monkey. Avoid Holleys as they are not as efficient. They're more for race cars than for passenger cars.
Carbs are seldom rebuilt, almost always replaced, and often with inferior quality ones. Adjust it per the VECI label, with these instructions as a guide. Forget the performance coil unless you have upgraded the entire ignition system as well, and check for battery voltage at the alternator. Also the regulator may have failed, and if it's the original one it's mechanical and should be replaced with a solid-state one in any case.

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"An action may be said to be conformable to the principle of utility when the tendency it has to augment the happiness of the community is greater than any which it has to diminish it." --Jeremy Bentham


#59 OFFLINE   hauserplenty

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 01:21 AM

But, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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"An action may be said to be conformable to the principle of utility when the tendency it has to augment the happiness of the community is greater than any which it has to diminish it." --Jeremy Bentham


#60 OFFLINE   AldridgePrior

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 01:23 AM

That thing looks clean as fuck. I like it. 8)


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Was there ever a Keyser Soze?

.....and like that, he's gone.




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