Technical question: Operator's licenses

[wuvvum]

Bit of a random query this one, but I thought somebody on here might know as I've had varying opinions from the people I've asked so far.

 

This is my latest purchase:

 

 

It's a 1995 Iveco Eurocargo 75E15 which I put a cheeky bid on about a month ago and, to my surprise, was offered on a second chance last week at a price I couldn't refuse. I picked it up from Chatham on Saturday and had great fun driving it back - the thing goes like the clappers, the acceleration is even better than my old Roadrunner, and because it has a higher-revving engine it will sit at a genuine 70 with a bit left in reserve for overtaking. It handles a lot better than the Leyland too, although it does seem slightly thirstier.

 

Anyway, the crux of the matter is this: If I decide to keep it (which I may well not do as it's rather large and parking it round here could get to be an issue) I was thinking of buying (or having made) a f***-off great pair of ramps and using it for transporting shite - both new purchases that are not really up to being driven home and existing fleet members that have died for whatever reason. Given that I am not a trader and that any vehicle that I put on the back would be my private car and registered in my name, would I still need an operator's license? The sticking point seems to be the "carriage of goods" thing and how you define it, and I've had as many different opinions on this as the number of people I've asked. Can anyone on here give me a definitive answer? Ta ever so...

[mk2_craig]

I think you only need an O-licence if you're using the vehicle in the course of business.

[Talbot]

If you are using the vehicle for non-business mileage, and it will only ever be driven for non-business mileage, then you need nothing more than your driver's license. If it has a Tacho fitted then you can pull that out too, as it's not needed. (they have a habit of running batteries flat)Same rules as with a 7.5 tonne horsebox lorry. If your transporting for a business, or even just transporting for someone else and they are paying you to do it, then an operator license and tacho are needed (along with business insurance). If it's only ever your horse, or your friends' horses, then no license/tacho needed (although it is permitted for others to share the reasonable running costs for the lorry. What you may not do is make a profit or charge for your time.)

[Cavcraft]

If you used it solely for recovering vehicles (which MUST be MOt'd, taxed and actually broken down) you can go distances of something like 60 miles from your base without a tacho. If you are transporting race cars (bangers, grass trackers etc) then it's a very grey area. Apparantly some racers have been pulled miles from home and were told if they raced for money or prizes the tacho exemption doesn't apply I kid you not. If you collect untaxed/MOT-less vehicles from more than 60 miles away then it's a grey area again because you could say you bought them to go racing in. Do any scrap work or buy/sell in auctions/collect eBay finds for yourself or others and you need a tacho. I believe to officially use the tacho you need to have an 'O' licence, though some say they just chuck a tacho in and wing it.Problems now are that VOSA don't just come out between 10.00-14.00 on sunny weekdays like they used to. They are cash rich now and can be sat on dock at 4.00 in the morning waiting for trucks to get off the ferry and they are notoriously hard to deal with.I'd be tempted to either wing it (shove a tacho in and keep the old ones with you in the truck) or sell it. I do have to point out that being an Iveco it's going to brake down. A lot. As quick as they are the later Leyland Dafs with Cummins turbo engines walk all over Ivecos without trying in every department.

[Maltelec]

the acceleration is even better than my old Roadrunner

My land rover has an engine out of a Roadrunner Not tried the acceleration yet, need prop shafts for that.

A lot. As quick as they are the later Leyland Dafs with Cummins turbo engines walk all over Ivecos without trying in every department.

Same engine as the Roadrunner but with a Turbo. Though the Roadrunner engine was built in Darlington under lisence. Not sure where the DAF45 engines were built.

[wuvvum]

A lot. As quick as they are the later Leyland Dafs with Cummins turbo engines walk all over Ivecos without trying in every department.

Same engine as the Roadrunner but with a Turbo. Though the Roadrunner engine was built in Darlington under lisence. Not sure where the DAF45 engines were built.

My Roadrunner was an 8.15. It had the Cummins engine with a turbo, and it went like poo off a spade off the line but ran out of revs at 63mph in fifth.

[hotford00]

I did used to have a cargo 813 beavertail, when I got one of the first things I did was contact VOSA they informed me that if I made it clear that it was not for hire or reward then I would providing it was plated and correctly insured then no O license would be required. I contacted a signwriter to paint on the cab the words Not for Hire or Reward, never had a problem even when tugged by the VOSA men on the road. Check with VOSA and put your mind at ease.

[Mr Lobster]

If it is only ever used for private / personal use then you don't need a O licence or to use tachos. That said, if its got a tacho then use it purely to cover yourself if you were stopped.Also worth checking what the situation with speed limiters is now. Newer 7.5t need to be limited to 56mph by law, just not sure what the cut off date is.We run quite a lot of them at work and rent them out to businesses (who definately do need an O licence) and to private people for moving house and such who don't need one.

[Cavcraft]

the acceleration is even better than my old Roadrunner

My land rover has an engine out of a Roadrunner Not tried the acceleration yet, need prop shafts for that.

A lot. As quick as they are the later Leyland Dafs with Cummins turbo engines walk all over Ivecos without trying in every department.

Same engine as the Roadrunner but with a Turbo. Though the Roadrunner engine was built in Darlington under lisence. Not sure where the DAF45 engines were built.

Same place probably as I believe they are Cummins units too. Slightly o/t but has anyone ever had the 'pleasure' of having to drive a 75E14 (four cylinder) Euro Cargo? I spent about 3 miserable months driving one and it was absolutely appalling.

[wuvvum]

Slightly o/t but has anyone ever had the 'pleasure' of having to drive a 75E14 (four cylinder) Euro Cargo? I spent about 3 miserable months driving one and it was absolutely appalling.

Nope, but I did once drive a four-pot Cargo (0809) with no PAS - that was almost certainly far, far worse. Isn't the four-pot engine in those 75E14s basically the same engine as they use in a higher state of tune in all the new-shape 7.5 Eurocargos? I'm pretty sure they're all four-pots now. Supposed to be slightly more economical than the sixes.

[wuvvum]

Also worth checking what the situation with speed limiters is now. Newer 7.5t need to be limited to 56mph by law, just not sure what the cut off date is.

I'm pretty sure it's 2001 - same date as the new tax laws for cars. I do know that mine doesn't need a limiter.

[dean36014]

Only later 7.5 tonners with Euro 3 engines needed to be governed to 56mph IIRC. I remember driving those Euro cargo's when the were new on a K reg. They seemed so nice back then even with all the cheap and nasty plastic in the cab, and the 150bhp engines went really well. however, they broke down every other week I wonder if K715BND is still around?

[mk2_craig]

Isn't the four-pot engine in those 75E14s basically the same engine as they use in a higher state of tune in all the new-shape 7.5 Eurocargos? I'm pretty sure they're all four-pots now. Supposed to be slightly more economical than the sixes.

Possibly something to do with meeting emissions levels? I heard that Iveco's current engine range is basically all Cummins-derived; those fours are probably pretty decently powerful nowadays.

[Cavcraft]

Cummins doing quite a bit these days, been told some Scanias (amongst others) run on them.Dean/wuvvum: I wish mine did only break down every other week, the E14 used to break down or something fell off every other day virtually. Electrics (like all the Euro Cargos) were laughably shite: the dashboard idiot light consoles lasted about two weeks, they were incredibly slow, hopeless on fuel, gearboxes and calipers lasted as long as the driver's seat covers, headlights used to swing free on one side and the wiring actually caught fire more than once including when I was loading up with hazardous waste.Some great memories included taking a two week old E15 back to the dealers with 2 full A4 pages of faults and them trying everything they could to worm out of fixing anything at all on the list. Indicators that flashed on the dashboard but not at the rear were fun when overtaking, and an exhaust brake that would wake the dead was quite comical but also GR8 4 SCARING PENSIONERS. Oh, we also had some Dailys too: one managed 55 miles from being delivered brand new from the dealer before the diesel pump completely f*ck*d up, another one the back window used to fall out of on regular occasions and the design genius who decided to put a bolt on the underneath of the accelerator pedal and a rubber floor mat needed a good kicking.They did seem nice Dean, you're right, but living with them was anything but and whilst they went ok it was sad being blown away by MANs and Dafs and spending so much time waiting for recovery/repair. I honestly wouldn't have one, if ever a truck was built down to a price rather than up to any discernible quality at all it's the Iveco.

[Torsten2001]

One thing you must have and that's a C1 classification on your licence!

[dean36014]

Yeah the reliability wasn't the best was it, mind you i had been driving a 1978 G10 Dodge,100 or 110 Bhp, no power steering and 53mph flat out before that. Used to deliver twin 28x10ft static caravans from hull to the south coast on it, at a steady 35mph with the trailer on all the way If you got stuck in traffic you got a knee trembler with your leg left, trying to operate the clutch it was that heavy.

This style cab with none of the later fancy plastics

Always remembered with the older styled cargo's you needed a special key to tip the cab, which the fitters would remove so you couldn't fiddle with the truck while you were sat waiting to be recovered.....again.

Somehow don't think I'll swap the MAN I drive now for any of the older trucks i used to have to drive.

[wuvvum]

One thing you must have and that's a C1 classification on your licence!

Yup, got that - just snuck in before they changed the rules.

[Cavcraft]

Yeah the reliability wasn't the best was it, mind you i had been driving a 1978 G10 Dodge,100 or 110 Bhp, no power steering and 53mph flat out before that. Used to deliver twin 28x10ft static caravans from hull to the south coast on it, at a steady 35mph with the trailer on all the way If you got stuck in traffic you got a knee trembler with your leg left, trying to operate the clutch it was that heavy.

This style cab with none of the later fancy plastics

Always remembered with the older styled cargo's you needed a special key to tip the cab, which the fitters would remove so you couldn't fiddle with the truck while you were sat waiting to be recovered.....again.

Somehow don't think I'll swap the MAN I drive now for any of the older trucks i used to have to drive.

Would that have been some sort of Perkins Phazer engine?

 

I don't know what key was needed to operate the cab lift on an Iveco but I bet it's one part that didn't go rusty. I did manage to 'accidentally' rip the cable off the limiter on mine about 3 weeks before I left the job.

What MAN do you drive now, 7.5 tonner or one of those big fancy TGA things everyone's raving about?

[wuvvum]

Yeah the reliability wasn't the best was it, mind you i had been driving a 1978 G10 Dodge,100 or 110 Bhp, no power steering and 53mph flat out before that. Used to deliver twin 28x10ft static caravans from hull to the south coast on it, at a steady 35mph with the trailer on all the way If you got stuck in traffic you got a knee trembler with your leg left, trying to operate the clutch it was that heavy.

This style cab with none of the later fancy plastics

Always remembered with the older styled cargo's you needed a special key to tip the cab, which the fitters would remove so you couldn't fiddle with the truck while you were sat waiting to be recovered.....again.

Somehow don't think I'll swap the MAN I drive now for any of the older trucks i used to have to drive.

Would that have been some sort of Perkins Phazer engine?

 

I think on that year it would have been a 6.354 wouldn't it? Pretty much the predecessor to the Phaser but I think they were indirect injection - the 4.236 on my 50 series was anyway.

[dean36014]

6.354 rings a bell, definately not a phaser. Slow, loud, and heavy to drive. I used to carry a blanket to wrap around the gear when you got in top to shut the row up.

Along way from this which was my stead for my last six years at that company.

Or the ultimate autoshite transporter, well you had to save fuel whenever you could