GM in the shit

[gtd2000]

 

Am I right in thinking the Yanks have a Scab based on a Subaru?

They do indeed - the SAAB 9-2x, my girlfriend has owned once since 2005.

 

I was actually going to buy one at the time but was working over in Israel (originally for 3 months but ended up being 2004 thru 2005) and couldn't take advantage of the GM employee discount pricing offers (for everybody) plus a factory rebate of $5~7000

 

So in the end she got a higher spec SAAB for a price well under that of the base 2.5L Subaru Sportwagon with 2 years free servicing and a 4 year warranty (3 years for Subaru).

 

I'd never have considered a SAAB at all but a Subaru badged as a SAAB with more goodies in it - whilst also being built in Japan - is a winner

 

 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

 

How about this pile of shite then? Cadillac BLS wagon, seemingly a thinly disguised Saab 9-3.

 

 

What a pile of jizz, this is a textbook example of why GM are screwed. 2/10.

 

I see they are angling for a massive handout from the US govenrment. I hope Obama is not delusional enough to think that he would get absolutley anything back from such a transaction of taxpayers cash. He might as well burn it.

[AnthonyG]

One wonders if the "world car" concept will work (isn't that what "Ford 2000" was all about?). It kind-of worked for the Chevette and Mk2 Cavalier. It didn't really work for the Mk3 Escort as the only interchangeable parts between US and RoW versions were 11 metric screws, or something like that. It certainly didn't work for the Mk1 Mondeo. The Taurus bombed in Oz. And the only reason the Mk1 Fiesta sold a quarter-mill between '78 and '80 in the States is because of the fuel crisis.

Yep the jury is definitely still out on that one. Interesting to learn that the BMW 3 series has different interior specs in the US than the EU. The reasons that the first Mondeo bombed in the States were mainly a) Americans didn't like the ride/handling mix slanted toward handling and the car was priced more or less the same as the larger Taurus. Plus it didn't have enough room in the back - a fault redeemed by the latest one, which size-wise almost seemed to be designed for the US first and Europe second!They did abandon to Taurus name to rental car doom in the start of this decade, and called their 'comeback' sedan the 'Five Hundred'. More or less the first thing Mullaly (exBoeing) did was demand it be renamed the Taurus. Even more stupidly, Ford let the Thunderbird name decay into rental car hell in the 90s, with the result that the only way they thought they could bring it back was with the retro convertible. Trouble is, unlike the Mustang, most of those who lusted after a T-bird in the 1950s and 1960s are now physically unable to get in and out of a low slung convertible - it's glory days were simply too long ago.GM let Camaro and Firebird die as well, when they had a pretty good customer base in the South.

[garethj]

There's nothing wrong with badge engineering as such; the Rootes Group did it successfully for many years.

True, it can work alright. However BL's mistake was in developing cars that competed against each other, throwing more money at development, not less.

 

As said, it looks like many manufacturers business models rely on selling shedloads of cars per year, if they were still hemorrhaging money doing that then heaven help them when sales fall by half.

 

For the baling out of the banks, it had to be done because everyone relies on borrowing. Not just people who buy a 42" plasma on the never never, but anyone who has a mortgage and anyone who uses a business to buy anything. If you're Tom or Barbara Good then fine, but for everyone else banks have to exist.

 

Governments don't hold manufacturing in such high esteem, and we're all familiar with the oodles of cash thrown at Austin Rover for years which just delayed the inevitable for a bit. But the supply chain is a huge industry and lots of people's jobs are at stake

[gtd2000]

The reasons that the first Mondeo bombed in the States were mainly a) Americans didn't like the ride/handling mix slanted toward handling and the car was priced more or less the same as the larger Taurus. Plus it didn't have enough room in the back - a fault redeemed by the latest one, which size-wise almost seemed to be designed for the US first and Europe second!They did abandon to Taurus name to rental car doom in the start of this decade, and called their 'comeback' sedan the 'Five Hundred'. More or less the first thing Mullaly (exBoeing) did was demand it be renamed the Taurus.

First time I've ever heard that the Modeo was sold in the USA.... I know they had the Ford Contour and whatever the Mercury variant was called - something even more anonymous no doubt - but it wasn't a Mondeo by any stretch of the imagination to my knowledge?I remember reading Contour owners whining that they should had had the Mondeo instead of the Contour..... The Taurus - "Contour" shaped one is a horrible car - worst rental cars I've ever driven

[CortinaDave]

9-3's are alright.. I'm currently tooling around in this one that i bought off ebay :

 

 

Got it cheap as its done 125k and has a few faults but nothing major.

 

Nice beast to drive, if a bit on the thirsty side.. but arse warming heated leather seats and lots of other toys.

 

Has the intensely irritating vectra style computer thats always moaning about wanting screenwash, a bulb or a service.. but apart from that i'm quite impressed with it. Appears to have had minimal servicing by its previous owner.. oil was literally like sludge... yet seems to be holding itself pretty well for the miles.

[retrogeezer]

First time I've ever heard that the Modeo was sold in the USA....

It was called the Contour and is exactly like a Mondeo:

 

Early version:

 

Mk2 style:

 

[gtd2000]

First time I've ever heard that the Modeo was sold in the USA....

It was called the Contour and is exactly like a Mondeo:

 

Early version:

 

Mk2 style:

 

Granted it "resembles" a Mondeo but it isn't a Mondeo at all

 

Thought I better research this a bit more before I put my foot in my mouth though

 

Despite being billed as a world car, the only external items the Mondeo shared with the Contour were the windscreen, front windows, front mirrors and door handles. Even the interior was slightly different. The CDW27 project turned out not to be a true world car in the sense that the original Ford Focus was; one design for the world.

That's no more a Mondeo than a Mazda 3 is a Volvo S40 in my books - related but not the same car....no?

[retrogeezer]

Despite being billed as a world car, the only external items the Mondeo shared with the Contour

Nah, it's only slightly different body panel pressings - if you showed those pics to anyone on the street theywould say it's a Mondeo. The Contour has a swauge line below the door moulding - the Mondeo doesn't but that doesn't REALLY make it a different car does it.And internal/mechanicals were the same I guess - just slight (and virtually un-noticeable) changes to the panels.

[MrRegieRitmo]

Mk2 style:

 

Despite being billed as a world car, the only external items the Mondeo shared with the Contour were the windscreen, front windows, front mirrors and door handles. Even the interior was slightly different. The CDW27 project turned out not to be a true world car in the sense that the original Ford Focus was; one design for the world.

I take it that excerpt above is talking about the MkI because the MkII above clearly has the same front end as a proper Mondeo!

[gtd2000]

I lived in the States from 2001~2007 and I remember thinking at the time when I first saw the Contours that they looked like Mondeos.But I'm sure other than some of the similar aspects mentioned here these were outweighed by other details e.g. lights, rooflines etc I'd love to get a side by side pic to actually compare the buggers ;)I certainly see what you mean regarding the red Mk2 Contour looking just like a Mondeo from the front angle.

[mk2_craig]

 

Mk2 style:

 

Despite being billed as a world car, the only external items the Mondeo shared with the Contour were the windscreen, front windows, front mirrors and door handles. Even the interior was slightly different. The CDW27 project turned out not to be a true world car in the sense that the original Ford Focus was; one design for the world.

I take it that excerpt above is talking about the MkI because the MkII above clearly has the same front end as a proper Mondeo!

Back end looks a good bit longer than Euro spec though?

 

Wasn't it one of these that got totalled in the Jackass movie, when they rented one and stuck it straight in a destruction derby?

[gtd2000]

I take it that excerpt above is talking about the MkI because the MkII above clearly has the same front end as a proper Mondeo!

I believe you are correct there (Mk1 reference) but from doing a bit more research into this topic, I'm led to belive the Mk2 Contour was simply the Mk1 Contour with the later "Mondeo" front end grafted on?It's still a bag o' shite at the end of the day

[garethj]

I believe you are correct there (Mk1 reference) but from doing a bit more research into this topic, I'm led to belive the Mk2 Contour was simply the Mk1 Contour with the later "Mondeo" front end grafted on?

Surely that's loads more work than using the standard Mondeo and fitting the dampers from Uncle Buck's 1975 Mercury Marquis coupe?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

OMG! My car was designed in Germany, now I can cancel my planned cock extension. GR8 4 SAVIN XMAS CA$H.

An imagination extension would be more appropriate. GR8 4 THKNG.During your lunch meeting with the key Honchos at GM - the only reliable source of reliable information as opposed to the bloke who cleans the bogs at your local dealer - did they tell you how Peugeot had 'no plans' to close Ryton? Scousers are cheap, but not as cheap as Lithuanians.

Yeah I got the info from some INTERNETZ FONT OF ALL KNOWLEDGE who said Vauxhall don't make cars in Britain anymore. I expect he also thinks Ellesmere Port is in Liverpool too. Still, you can't educate pork as someone once said. It's better to shout spite than spout shite, so if you have nothing positive left to say and wish to carry on being a cock then be my guest. I'm a tit for reacting to the pathetic bollocks you've spouted on here and I apologise to the admin and others as I should have left it.That's the end of the matter as far as I'm concerned, if you do wish to carry it on that's up to you but I'll do my best not to sink to your level again as two wrongs don't make a right.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That Saab estate looks bleeding awful and reminds me of that cartoon film 'Cars', or whatever it was called. If that's the best Saab can come up with then I wouldn't be surprised to hear they're in the shite.

Aaaah bless!! :DThing is, you make it so weird by taking any criticism of horrid GM bilge as a personal affront. But I'll leave name calling to you. I expect you were bullied at school, poor lamb.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Surely that's loads more work than using the standard Mondeo and fitting the dampers from Uncle Buck's 1975 Mercury Marquis coupe?

'74 LTD Country Squire actually.

[Guest]

I feel a bit like Chevy Chase in Vacation, when he accidentally drives the Truckster into a bad bit of St Louis and there's really unpleasant people everywhere.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I feel a bit like Chevy Chase in Vacation, when he accidentally drives the Transit into Mansfield (Notts) and there's really unpleasant people everywhere.

[mk2_craig]

First time I've ever heard that the Modeo was sold in the USA....

It was called the Contour and is exactly like a Mondeo:

 

Early version:

 

I hope the bumpers were made of sterner stuff than the ones we got, judging by the state of Fordpoplier's stateside spots they wouldn't stay intact for long.

 

What's the van behind that looks like a cross between a Fiat Scudo and a VW Trainspotter T4, (with Sierra GLS wheeltrims for good measure!) and is it normal for the sill to corrode that badly?!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I'm pretty sure it's a GMC. Only 3 weeks old judging by the rust.

[stoterstangen90]

I think i have to buy a Cadillac Northstar Eldorado or something....

[AnthonyG]

What's the van behind that looks like a cross between a Fiat Scudo and a VW Trainspotter T4, (with Sierra GLS wheeltrims for good measure!) and is it normal for the sill to corrode that badly?!

Ford Aerostar. Shitty 'competition' for the Chrysler Voyager circa 1985. Yes rust like that is normal in the States, because many states do not bother with body rust in the annual 'inspection'!

[gtd2000]

I believe you are correct there (Mk1 reference) but from doing a bit more research into this topic, I'm led to belive the Mk2 Contour was simply the Mk1 Contour with the later "Mondeo" front end grafted on?

Surely that's loads more work than using the standard Mondeo and fitting the dampers from Uncle Buck's 1975 Mercury Marquis coupe?

I'd have thought the same to be honest - why go to all that extra trouble - but if you look at this quote from the Mk1 Contour:

Despite being billed as a world car, the only external items the Mondeo shared with the Contour were the windscreen, front windows, front mirrors and door handles. Even the interior was slightly different. The CDW27 project turned out not to be a true world car in the sense that the original Ford Focus was; one design for the world.

You can see that they do enjoy all that extra trouble when making bland cars nobody really desires in the first place.....

[Ross_K]

Looks like Opel aren't hanging about waiting for the hammer to fall on GM US."Spare some change guv?" Well €2bn actually...http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... er=germany

Opel, which targets mainly low-income buyers, has been among the automakers hardest hit by the credit crunch. The brand’s European sales have fallen 12 percent this year, more than twice the industry-wide drop, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association.

Ouch.

[r.welfare]

I was looking at them Saab 9-3 GM jobs the other day. Are they really so shit as to not be worth bothering with?(Plus the 'pistonheadz' image of know-all keyboard hero twuntholes who drive ta grey 2.2TiD version but delude themselves it's an Elise is offputting)

They are certainly not worth the money new, and if I had paid list for "mine" (company car) then I would have been mightily annoyed at 50% depreciation over 12 months and 25,000 miles. Witness the 57-plate 150bhp Vector Sports with minimal miles available from any Saab dealer for £13k, as advertised in the Sunday papers every week.That said once you get over the fact that it's not a hewn-from-solid "proper" Saab they are not a bad car. Comfy seats and economical in 1.9TD form. Handsome too. But easy to stall, and take off like the QE2 outta Southampton if you're in the wrong gear and hence off-boost.Certainly steer away from the 2002/03 models, the 2007 model year-on ones are best really, quality-wise.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Looks like Opel aren't hanging about waiting for the hammer to fall on GM US."Spare some change guv?" Well €2bn actually...http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... er=germany

Opel, which targets mainly low-income buyers, has been among the automakers hardest hit by the credit crunch. The brand’s European sales have fallen 12 percent this year, more than twice the industry-wide drop, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association.

Ouch.

The trouble is, they have to compete with VW but Opel are still competitive unlike Ford who - for some reason - have never been huge sellers in Germany although the Ka, Focus and Mondeo have done lots to rectify that. Really, Opel and Vox Hall would do well to break away from the parent company although if GM do go tits up, the profitable European bits would be sold off. There is NO WAY Vauxhall Opel would be allowed to vanish if GM folded. The European arm of GM is probably big enough to funbd its own model development. Does Saab needs ditching however?

[Cavcraft]

I don't know the ins/outs of Saab but are they making a profit? One thing that I wonder is that if GM did go tits up who would actually want to buy any of it's franchises (for want of a better expression) when most other companies are probably watching their purse strings?

[Betaphile]

I don't know the ins/outs of Saab but are they making a profit? One thing that I wonder is that if GM did go tits up who would actually want to buy any of it's franchises (for want of a better expression) when most other companies are probably watching their purse strings?

GM doesn't break down its individual divisions' profit/loss statements, but it's generally assumed that Saab hasn't posted a profit since at least 2000, when GM took full control. The other problem is that they their new model program has been delayed, again - new 9-5 was supposed to debut at Geneva '09 but has been pushed back at least a year. Saab still has value, more for what it represents than what it actually is nowadays, but I can't see who in the car business would want it, or why. I tend to think that GM Europe will be spun off as a standalone entity once GM files C11 and Saab will be bundled into that.

[Father Ted]

The bosses of the three biggest US carmakers, Ford, GM and Chrysler, have asked Congress for a $25bn bail-out. They told a Senate hearing that without the rescue package, their firms risked collapse, and warned of broader risks to the US economy. GM chief executive Rick Wagoner said the firm needed a loan to span the "financial chasm" that had opened up. However, Republicans and the White House do not want to use the $700bn bank rescue to help car firms.

[Ross_K]

They're getting so desperate now that they're spamming their customers, asking them to lobby their politicians:http://consumerist.com/5092147/gms-prez ... gms-behalfInteresting link in that email, with no mention of GMAC's subprime lending balls-up. I think GM would have you believe this whole thing was just about cars... http://gmfactsandfiction.com/http://www.freep.com/article/20081105/B ... /811050375

Moody's credit rating for GMAC is Caa1, which means it is a high credit risk and is just two levels above default. Moody's may also soon downgrade GMAC because it is under a credit review. GMAC, which is scheduled to report third-quarter earnings today, lost $2.5 billion in the second quarter.