Towing chod

[forddeliveryboy]

What's the law say at the moment, regarding A-frames and towing dollies? Don't seem to have seen so many around of late, is it now illegal, or not allowed?

[forddeliveryboy]

Ok, have done some research and seems like it's pretty much a no-no unless for recovery - if they wish, tptb can do you for breaking one of a number of laws, it's down to interpretation. Trailer looks like the safe bet, legally. If you're allowed to tow - hadn't realised if you passed your test after '97 your licence doesn't allow you to, without a test. Life gets no easier, it seems everyone is expected to be a liabiliy to themselves as well as others - quite the reverse from not so long ago.

[Bobthebeard]

^^

A minefield. Just like many things nowadays!

Sad but true.

[dollywobbler]

Nothing has changed. It has always been a bit dubious, but folk have got away with it for the most part.

[forddeliveryboy]

So is a 2cv allowed on an A-frame, since it's under 750kg? And what if on a dolly? I've read tales of cars having to be insured and the rest. Feel it's just the UK descending further into the 'let's grab all we can, by whatever means, from law-abiding citizens' trap.

[dollywobbler]

Define 'allowed.' You might as well try and define 'law abiding' at the same time. It's a grey area and always has been. Nothing has changed so you can remove your tin foil hat.

[scooters]

for the lack of grief I would stick it on a flatbed and get some old fart like me to do the driving. VOSA rules are increasingly confusing to the degree that often your common or garden copper doesn't actually know the law.

[nigel bickle]

I'm not yet aware of a 'test case' - so cant really answer the question.

 

The forums are alive with 'nay sayers', but I've been A framing (all over Europe -Germany excepted) for years without any problems -even when stopped by the authorities.

 

I'm not aware of any law changes- so I've always stuck to the adage to make it safe. If it looks' right' ,and you appear knowledgeable/safe- you're probably fineto proceed.

 

If you're a total novice, without a clue -DON'T. Learn from someone who can (why do you think there are always single use A frames for sale?) before embarking on a haul.

 

Does that help? Probably not.

[Micrashed]

Meh - A-Frame and be dammed

Picasso & Moggie this weekend on the A50....

[Lankytim]

I don't think you can A frame a 2cv anyway, the suspension arms go the wrong way so you can't chain it on.

[scruff]

Aye I passed a Peugeot Partner A-framing a Fiesta down the M5 today

[dollywobbler]

I don't think you can A frame a 2cv anyway, the suspension arms go the wrong way so you can't chain it on.

 

You can. I've done it. Just needs the right A-frame. I've also seen one work that just bolted onto the front of the chassis. I didn't particularly enjoy doing it though, even though it was well within the capabilities of my BX.

[forddeliveryboy]

I don't think you can A frame a 2cv anyway, the suspension arms go the wrong way so you can't chain it on.

 

This is probably what this chap had been trying!

 

More seriously, I've an A frame which came with a 2cv I bought years ago, designed to butt onto the front arms and with nylon straps round the back of the arms. Used it once, ok on the smooth, not too keen on the stresses it induced (in itself) through corners and over undulations where the front wheels moved in different directions.

[warninglight]

^Basically can tow up to the kerb weight of your car, or it's maximum towing weight, whichever is less, and providing the full weight of laden car and trailer doesn't exceed 3500kg.

 

Any trailer above 750kg has to be braked.

 

You can't pull an empty trailer plated for 3500kg behind a car that can't pull 3500kg too, stupid rule but does exist!

 

So with my Volvo (kerb 1540ishkg, towing allowance 1600kg) I can pull 1540 braked, with the B+E licence I could pull 1600.

[meshking]

I was once going to a frame an Acadiane behind my na diesel zx from Swansea to the Wirral. I was kinda up for it, but the man who's a frame it was said "sometimes it'll just go straight over to lock on one side, you'll have to jump out and straighten the wheel". I chickened out at that point.

[HMC]

post  97  cat B drivers can tow more than 750kg  -  read the book that comes with your DL / download it from the Doovla site 

Yes, common misconception that you cant, but its all there in black and white thats its ok.

 

I had a look at the legal aspects recently (translate as a trawl through google), and aside from 'recovery' purposes A-frames seem frowned upon legally, but its one of those things thats a grey area.

 

Firstly it doesnt seem particularly enforced, and 'recovery' can be interpreted any number of ways..... I suspect in reality you'd be unlucky if you were pulled and something was made of it unless you were taking the piss with towing limits basically.

[forddeliveryboy]

I was once going to a frame an Acadiane behind my na diesel zx from Swansea to the Wirral. I was kinda up for it, but the man who's a frame it was said "sometimes it'll just go straight over to lock on one side, you'll have to jump out and straighten the wheel". I chickened out at that point.

 

Was that with one of those unpleasant suspension arm connecting frames, for 2cvs and the like? I had a bother with the steering rapidly pulling on side then the other on setting off, speed-related, because either the frame wasn't completely centrally located on the leading arms or the steering had a bit of movement in it (with kingpins and sprung joints, likely) - no doubt a bit of both.

 

It only happened if you set off when the towed car was not steering ahead  and as advised it 'drove through it'. Not pleasant and no idea why it's designed to connect with a part of the car which is the part of the suspension which moves most, and often in different directions one side to the other. But I know who did 'design' it (well-known 'specialist' 2cv painter and rechassier), which makes it less of a surprise.

 

 

Yes, common misconception that you can't [tow with post-97 licence], but its all there in black and white thats its ok.

 

 

I was under a misconception from what younger mates had told me, so here is the gubber's spiel in black and white:

 

The rules on what you can tow are different depending on when you passed your driving test.

 

Licences issued from 19 January 2013

From 19 January 2013, drivers passing a category B (car and small vehicle) test can tow:

• small trailers weighing no more than 750kg
• trailers weighing more than 750kg, where the combined weight of the towing vehicle and the trailer isn’t more than 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM)

If you want to tow a trailer weighing more than 750kg, when the combined weight of the towing vehicle and trailer is more than 3,500kg, you’ll have to pass a further test and get B+E entitlement on your licence.

You’ll then be able to tow trailers up to 3,500kg.

 

Licences held from 1 January 1997

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:

• drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
• tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)

For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test.

 

Licences held before 1 January 1997

If you passed your car test before 1 January 1997 you are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM.

This is the weight of a vehicle or trailer including the maximum load that can be carried safely when it’s being used on the road.

You also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.

For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test.

[Barry Cade]

Good luck with this one- I was as confused as everyone else and I towed vehicles on a "dolly" for a living...  and couldn't get any concrete answers from anyone. The industry itself even said someone would have to get killed before the law was made clear...