Guest Hooli Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 And now for something controversial! A tin of Celebrations, I agree they are better than Quality Street. RobT, Lacquer Peel, Banger Kenny and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 I put the spacer and sprocket on the camshaft earlier this week, but noticed a strange wear pattern on the spacer: I can't think of anything which would have caused this! Any ideas? Once that was on I smeared the chain and sprockets with assembly lube: Note the oil thrower which I think is only fitted to the very early 'rope seal' engines - certainly what I've read. Although mine has been converted to the later lip seals I've left it in place as it can't hurt. Cleaned out the inside of the front cover and oil pump: Copper greased up all the retaining bolts: Mounted the cover, then tapped the new oil seal into place: Next job is to reassemble the oil pump - I will pack it with vaseline for ease of priming but I need to buy a tub first! Lacquer Peel, DeeJay, Cleon-Fonte and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Duplicate post for some reason! EDIT - very strange, I edited this post to remove the pictures and it removed them from the first post too! EDIT2 - Arrrgh! Re-uploaded to post 1, and it's put them back on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hooli Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 That was more exciting to read the first time I do like a proper rebuild thread, looks like you're doing it properly. That wear looks like where a seal has run to me, but they don't have one there do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Badger Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Qualiy thread Mat, you make the rebuild look easy. mat_the_cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 I do like a proper rebuild thread, looks like you're doing it properly. That wear looks like where a seal has run to me, but they don't have one there do they? No, no seal there so a bit of a puzzle! Arguably doing it properly would be to replace all parts with new - valves, guides, springs, rockers, pistons etc. But (quite aside from the financial side) I like the idea of checking/measuring and replacing where necessary. Somehow feels more involved than just opening my wallet and renewing everything, if that makes any kind of sense? I suppose it's similar to the satisfaction of keeping an older car running reliably. tooSavvy, KruJoe, Lacquer Peel and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Vaseline purchased this afternoon, although I did wonder whether the contents of my basket gave the wrong message... Then I packed the (previously upgraded) oil pump to help priming. Cleaned out the cover and oiled the pressure relief valve, and all back together now! RayMK, Banger Kenny, DeeJay and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 This week I've been waiting to go over and collect the heads and pistons (which they'd offered to put though the washer for me, no charge), so I've been busying myself with other things. It's a 140 mile round trip so I can only really do it on half day Fridays. Anyway, I stripped down the starter, cleaned it up inside and out, lubricated the bearings and gave it a coat of paint. I wanted to torque down the front cover, as it would be a lot easier to do the cover bolts now rather than with the engine in. But I was reluctant to tighten just the lower bolts without the water pump in place, and I can't fit the pump now as I need the clearance to lower the engine in! So after cleaning up all the threads I used some spacers to allow the long water pump bolts to clamp down the cover, which I'll remove before fitting the pump. Heads were collected this afternoon, and look nice and shiny! As one had already had a skim, they took more off the other to match them up, and compensate for the thicker composite gaskets. I also asked them to machine the guides to accept oil seals. I was initially not too sure of this, as I was worried that the earlier cast iron guides actually needed the lack of seals to allow enough oil to lubricate them. But a lot of people have had this done, and some engines are designed with these guides and seals, so I figure it should be safe to do so. I guess the graphite in the iron helps with lubrication, and *some* oil will still pass the seal. The pistons are pretty clean now, but I still will need to clean out all the grooves with a broken bit of ring. So that will probably be my task for tonight! I've dropped off the flywheel with them for lightening and balancing, so will probably collect that in a week or two. scdan4, Cleon-Fonte, Dave_Q and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimo Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Doesn't the flywheel have a balance weight (and the crankshaft pulley at the other end) making it necessary to balance the entire rotating assembly as one? I thought that was always the case with V8 engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Not in this case at least - the crank, flywheel and vibration damper are all balanced separately. You might be able to get away with just lightening the flywheel, but my understanding is that things like casting voids, porosity etc may mean that by evening removing material you are actually unevenly removing weight. So best to get it balanced again afterwards. Asimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 The pistons still had a bit of carbon on the crown, so I spent about 3 hours last night cleaning them up including the ring grooves. I had to do that particular job outside for reasons of domestic harmony! But re-ringing was done this evening whilst sat in front of the fire All done! One of the big end bolt's threads came away while removing them, but it was simple to tap the bolt out and replace with new: All the other bolts looked in perfect condition, so I've left them in place. I had a package arrive today too I wasn't planning on replacing valves as they are in decent condition; however a bit of research showed that it's a fairly cheap upgrade to fit SD1 Vitesse spec valves. These have a narrowed stem just below the head for less restriction to airflow through the ports. They were deemed adequate by Land Rover for all the later engines up to 4.6 litre, so should flow more than enough for a mildly tweaked 3.5! scdan4, Skizzer, Banger Kenny and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 Here's a better photo of the valves, showing the difference I mean. I've not started building the heads yet, as I'm planning a little bit of mild porting to the heads to make the most of the cam, so have been doing a fair amount of research beforehand. More on that later... First of all the bottom end needed building up. I was paranoid about scratching my nice polished crank with the con rod bolts, so I protected them with tape. Bearing shells all in place and each cap kept with the respective rod. I oiled up the pistons and rings before compressing them, and smeared the shells with assembly lube before tapping them down the bores. You'll notice no protective tape at this stage - after the first one it was tricky to remove, and by adjusting the angle of the engine I could get the bores vertical to avoid scratching them, and guide the rod in from below whilst reaching up to tap the piston from above. I was quite surprised at how long it all took (probably around 3 hours), but I was really taking my time and not rushing anything. A very satisfying job, especially turning the crank and watching the pistons rise up and down catsinthewelder, Banger Kenny, Skizzer and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hooli Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I've only fitted pistons to an engine twice, both times I know exactly what you mean about when it all moves properly. That's only bettered by when you trash the knackers off it & it begs for more. You know you did it right then. mat_the_cat and Skizzer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twosmoke300 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 ''Tis a lovely feeling that smooth but slight schhh sound of new rings in honed bores and a fresh crank . Like silk alf892 and mat_the_cat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 That's only bettered by when you trash the knackers off it & it begs for more. You know you did it right then. I'm very much looking forwards to that part! But with a massive amount of nervousness... Banger Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hooli Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I'm very much looking forwards to that part! But with a massive amount of nervousness...Yeah I was much the same on my Bonnie after I'd rebuilt it and in my Disco when I'd changed the rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Minor update with photos from last night (I'm currently having a break from lapping the valves in!) Now that the bottom end had been built up, I could finally put the sump in place. I'm not generally a fan of silicone sealant, but the sealing faces aren't in the best condition, and LR did away with the gasket anyway on later engines. So I went with that, but I do have a method which I believe minimises the risk of sealant being squeezed out and floating around in the engine. Not too much applied to start with, and central to sit in the corresponding groove on the sump: I'd had a minor leak from the back of the sump for a while, which I realised was not helped by the lack of this plate. New one bought from Rimmer Bros, with the longer bolts required. There's a large gap between bolt holes on the rearmost main bearing cap so this helps to spread the clamping force. I guess without it there's a chance the seal will fail under vibration. Sump now in place: What I did was tighten the bolts down until the sealant was making contact all the way around, but not enough to force it all out of the joint. Then I waited until it had set, before torquing everything down evenly. The sump is a bit of a mess TBH - I had to cut and reweld it to clear the front crossmember, but the welding was done while I was still very much learning! I'm wary to grinding it all back in case I uncover a pinhole which causes it to leak; as it holds paraffin OK at the moment am inclined to leave well alone. Back to the valves I guess... tooSavvy, Rusty_Rocket, Banger Kenny and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hooli Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 It's looking like an engine again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danblez Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Really enjoying this, good work! mat_the_cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Good new, bad news and a delay. In that order, the heads are now close to being built back up again. Something I feel a bit more confident with, as it's known territory and you can't really assemble them wrongly! Although this time I've tried a bit of mild porting - mainly to remove this step in the inlet port just below the valve seat: Here you can see I've started to have a go at it, but still more to remove and hardly very well blended in to the rough, as cast finish in the rest of the port: Finally, pretty much there: The worst of the roughness removed (by hand!) and the sharp edge smoothed out. Repeat 16 times, and job done! Actually, the exhaust ports had much less work to do, and are less critical anyway as there's much more of a pressure differential. It still took most of the weekend though... Then an hour or so to lap all the valves in: I'm paranoid about traces of lapping compound remaining behind, so I degreased both heads thoroughly, followed by pressure washing in the rain. So obviously I had to dry them out again! And now for the bad news - spot the problem? Annoyingly I tapped one of the valve seals in off square, so that had to be removed as it was all out of shape. I've got another one on its way, but it's going to be a couple of days before I can do any more. As it happened though, there would still have been a delay as I measured the valve springs and there's a fair amount of variation between them. So for the price they are, and peace of mind I'm going to replace them as well at this stage. scdan4, Asimo, Coprolalia and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 The valve springs and final valve seal arrived today, so I had a bit more of a play with the heads this evening. I've cleaned out all the threads; partly to make assembly easier and also to check all the threads are in good condition. Valves now fitted, lubricated with assembly grease. I managed to use the kitchen table as a workbench, which was handy! All done and ready to fit! I'd like to clean the head bolt threads in the block first, before I fit them. However, despite my Grandad leaving me a seemingly endless collection of imperial taps, there's no 7/16" UNC. There is a 7/16" BSW, which has the same pitch but a slightly different thread angle...so close but I daren't risk it. Once the new tap arrives I will be able to crack on... Banger Kenny, Coprolalia, scdan4 and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacquer Peel Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Cracking work Mat. It's good to see the stages of the rebuild and how understanding Mrs. The-cat must be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 I got my tap earlier in the week, so cleaned out all the heads ready for new bolts. I've gone for the stretch bolt option, as I really think you would struggle to get an even clamping force based on torque alone - with such coarse threads there's masses of potential for error. At least with stretch bolts you know it'll be uniform, even if it did take a 4 foot breaker bar to tighten! Ideally some ARP studs, but I can't justify well over £100 for those. Composite head gaskets: Heads both on and torqued down, valley gasket temporarily in place to keep dust out: Then next day it was on to lubing the camshaft. I'd been using general engine assembly lubricant for the rest of the wear surfaces, but for the cam and lifters I wanted something better until they break in: I wanted to fill the sump at this stage too, as otherwise when filling via the rocker cover, it might wash off all the cam lube! Then it was just a case of lubing each lobe and lifter, and sliding into place. I'll probably put the rocker covers on for now, as I have to rebuild the rocker gear and than might take a few days. Skizzer, M'coli, Richard and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Minor update this evening - i cleaned up the several mm of black crud from the rocker covers, and plonked them in place. I've gone for cork gaskets because, as Morgan owners probably can appreciate, I like having a functional part of my car made from wood: I know a lot of people don't rate them, but I've honestly never had a problem with them on several engines. I much prefer the look of the early rocker covers too, which have cleaned up nicely anonymous user, loserone, Lacquer Peel and 10 others 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Today's job was to take a look at the rocker shafts. At first glance they didn't seem too bad after a quick clean up - only slight play in the rockers on the shafts. But a closer look showed scoring and a noticeable wear lip on the shaft. Plus some of the rocker cups had started to break up. You can buy the shafts fairly cheaply, but the problem lies with why they wear in the first place. Logically the aluminium arms should wear before the steel shafts, but what happens is any bits of metal floating around in the oil tend to embed themselves into the aluminium and grind away at the shaft. Pattern rockers are available, but not to the same tolerances as the original, so there is a likelihood of too much oil flowing through, flooding the top end with oil and reducing the pressure elsewhere. Genuine rockers are £30+ EACH! But then I remembered I had stripped a scrap engine for spares around 10 years ago. I didn't know anything about the engine, apart from it had thrown a rod through the crankcase and looked even more filthy inside than mine! But I'd salvaged the rocker assemblies 'just in case', so it was time to clean them up and assess for wear. Happily there was next to no wear at all - just a polished area on the bottom of the shaft where they go first! And here's where I am at the moment - I need to make sure they are clean. Not just for cosmetics, but the centre of the shaft is partly blocked with sludge so will restrict flow. Plus there are oilways within the rockers which I've unblocked with an appropriately sized drill bit. There's a little bit of corrosion and wear on the shaft where the spacer springs have contacted it, but I can't see that being a functional problem at all. Banger Kenny, DeeJay, Dave_Q and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollywobbler Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Great stuff! Doubt I'd ever have the patience to do a proper engine overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 I'm not sure I really have the patience either - I just want to finish the job and drive it! But I can certainly see where the cost goes when paying for a *thorough* professional rebuild. Fair enough, they'll be able to work faster than I can with experience and better equipment, but even so there's a hell of a lot of hours going into the job. Banger Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 The end is in sight (hopefully!) I started building up the rocker shafts earlier this evening, which was quite enjoyable. Lubricating the shaft before sliding on each rocker, with a spring washer on each end to retain them. Pushrods in place. (Fortunately, as the cups had not yet disintegrated, the pushrods had not visibly started to wear). Both rocker assemblies now in place. To do list: Rotate engine to check nothing jamsFit engine mountsSecure dipstick tubeFlywheel (still not collected it yet)ClutchFit engineFit inlet manifoldCrank pulleyWater pumpPrime oil systemFit distributorExhaust manifoldsStart!!! Banger Kenny, DeeJay, scdan4 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuboy Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 call me nieve.. Vaseline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hooli Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 call me nieve.. Vaseline?Dissolves in oil unlike grease. stuboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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