Project Korean Cortina - MOT day

[Pete-M]

Know anyone with a large ultrasound bath? While it is out. They do a marvelous job of getting all the crap out of galleries.

[mat_the_cat]

We have a huge one at work, but it's for cleaning optics so needs to be kept spotlessly clean. Otherwise that would have been ideal. I'll take it to the place who will be doing the honing etc, and they will be able to clean it better than I can.

 

I've stripped it down to the bare block now, so here are the pictures to date.

 

This is why I dislike gasket sealant!

 

I'm now glad I'm doing a full overhaul!

That explains the mark on that bore at least.

 

Big-end bearings fairly worn too:

 

But main bearings even worse:

 

None of them have worn down to the steel backing of the shell though, so I'm hopeful the crankshaft is OK - not examined or measured it yet.

[mat_the_cat]

I'm taking the block and crank in for (hopefully just) a hone and polish tomorrow, so given the block a bit of a clean up. I will get them to give it a thorough clean afterwards too.

 

 

 

In the meantime I will strip and check the heads, then when the block is ready I can taken them in if they need a skim, or if new guides or seats are needed.

[danthecapriman]

Brilliant progress.

When my Ford V8 was stripped the crank bearings looked similar to yours, I got away with only needing the crank polishing so hopefully yours will be ok.

I didn't get so lucky with the block though! It needed a full rebore.

[mat_the_cat]

Have you (or anyone else) had experience of the Piper 270 cam? That's what I had on my wishlist back in  the day, and would seem to be a reasonably mild upgrade so as not to spoil driveability.

 

My SD1 Vitesse had an uprated camshaft, which I think was a Hurricane or summat. It had Rhodes lifters to supposedly improve driveability but it really didn't do much to improve power and they didn't half clatter sometimes. It would rev higher than a standard Rover V8 but although that sounds like a good thing it really did begin to get rough at high revs. So rough that I rarely used the extra poke the cam allegedly delivered and spent far too much time cursing the lack of low rev grunt caused by the sporty cam.

 

You know the lovely low down grunt the V8 has? Say goodbye to that with a sporty cam. The 3.9 EFI cam will up the poke without removing low down grunt.

 

I'm really struggling to decide on the camshaft. I don't want to lose much low down torque, but that said, I'm actually happy with the pull even my worn cam has at low revs. So I'd think that a mild upgrade can't be worse than that! And the SD1 weighs around 400 kg more than the Stellar, with a 3.09:1 rear axle ratio versus my 3.45:1. So on that logic, I am still thinking of an uprated cam, as I'll be spending more time at higher revs than an SD1 would.

 

I'm also wondering if the Rhoads lifters maybe hadn't fully pumped up until after the torque peak for the Hurricane cam? Certainly from a bit of Googling it would seem they're normally only reserved for more extreme cams.

 

I guess price will have to come into it somewhere!

[Guest Hooli]

Not seen this thread before, bloody excellent!

[scdan4]

Good work matt. will be lovely when done.

 

(something  I don't understand having just caught up the last few pages: Low compressions being indicitive of cam wear? Surely if the cam is worn, the valves are opened less... i.e. are shut more... Why would that drop compression?)

[twosmoke300]

Can't suck in enough air to fill the chamber fully

[Pete-M]

It may have been a Typhoon cam? It had big valve heads from a TVR. The cam certainly didn't do it any favours.

 

The 4.2 JE engine in my VP EFI didn't have a mad cam, that thing just pulled like a train. Did 244 bhp on the dyno

[mat_the_cat]

Not much to report, but the sun was shining this afternoon so I did some work outside on my mobile 'workbench'.

 

 

The company who did my exhausts had used paste to seal them to the manifolds, as I hadn't been able to find gaskets to suit them. They were originally from a P5B, being the tightest to the block manifolds I could find, and a larger diameter to anything the local factors had listed for a Rover V8.

 

The paste didn't seal too well so there was a light blow, which I mistakenly thought could be a cracked manifold. So I've decided to make my own gaskets for reassembly. First of all a tap with a hammer to mark where to drill:

 

 

Then slide over the studs and cut roughly to shape:

 

 

One side done!

 

[Pete-M]

MGB V8 manifolds are about the closest to the block ones I've seen for the RV8.

[mat_the_cat]

You're right, I did investigate those with a lot of Google image searching...

 

 

However the exit from those is in the middle, which is right where the front subframe is on the Stellar! Not an insurmountable problem, but I was keen to minimise any modifications to the shell, as well as wanting an easy life!

 

The P5B manifolds were a lucky stroke really, as I just found them via an image search, thought they looked about right and following the link they were on an old Retro Rides for sale thread. Much relief when they slotted into place.

[mat_the_cat]

Update time! The bores are OK, and the scuff mark will apparently just hone out. More good news is that the crank just needs a polish Slightly worse news is that the surface of the block shows some fretting from the HG shifting around, so that won't give the best seal on a new gasket. So I'm getting the deck skimmed to clean it all up - I'll need to get some material removed anyway to allow for the (thicker) composite gaskets I want to fit.

 

The heads are now stripped down; last valve coming out:

 

 

The valves and guides appear at first sight to be in perfect condition. No detectable side to side movement with the valve open, and sliding up and down beautifully. Original Rover valves too!

 

 

The only slight concern is that these are the early type of guide, with no valve seal fitted. Later types are machined for a stem seal, and rely on an impregnated lubricant rather than the engine oil. I've read that you can get the early guides machined to fit the seals, but to my logic that sounds a poor idea as you'd be running the different material with next to no lubrication.

 

As it was showing no signs of burning oil, I'm inclined to leave alone and just clean up/relap the valves. Still need to measure the springs, which I'll replace if needed.

[mat_the_cat]

I've cleaned up the heads this evening, and they are now sat by the fire to dry out.

 

 

I've also taken the file to some of the rough cast edges on the oil drain holes. It seems a good idea to get oil back to the sump as fast as possible, especially given that my oil capacity is lower than standard as I've cut and shut the sump to clear the crossmember.

[Guest Hooli]

I might have missed it but what about an oil cooler to get the capacity back up?

[Bren]

You can drill a couple of 6mm holes at the timing end of the lifter valley to get the oil back to the sump more quickly.

 

Have you done any calculations regarding your composite gaskets? You don't want to reduce the compression too much plus you will need to think about tappet preload - shims under the rocker pedestals.

[mat_the_cat]

You can drill a couple of 6mm holes at the timing end of the lifter valley to get the oil back to the sump more quickly.

 

Already planned! Plus if I get them at the right angle they will lubricate the timing gear and chain more effectively. I had wondered about an oil cooler, but I don't think it's needed - the oil temperature doesn't get abnormally high. Maybe an extra tank in line with the remote filter, but in all likelihood the litre less oil probably isn't an issue. I will be changing the oil pretty frequently anyway.

 

With getting the block and heads skimmed the compression ratio should be around the same - don't want to increase it significantly otherwise I run the risk of not being able to bolt the inlet manifold down. I will be checking for lifter preload as a matter of course.

[mat_the_cat]

The block and crank are ready, so I'll be collecting them this Friday and dropping off the heads for a skim. As well as parting with cash for lots of shiny bits!

 

The only unknown at this stage are the pistons. To me the ring groove appears too wide - certainly there is a (relatively) large gap with the old rings, although it needs to be measured with new rings. However, I'd imagine the aluminium would wear more than the rings so am expecting the gap to be similar with new rings.

 

Which means I'll likely need to replace the pistons, unfortunately

[mat_the_cat]

It begins!

 

 

 

I picked up the block and crank today I've left the pistons there as they'll put them through the parts washer, but they reckon that visually they look to be OK.

 

They had a look at the heads and apparently one has been skimmed, the other not; so they'll measure from the head datums and take a different amount off so that everything matches up and gives round about a 9.5:1 compression ratio with the composite gaskets.

 

I did see their head castings they do for race engines, but wasn't brave enough to ask the price!

[Skizzer]

Mmmmm, engineering. Phwoar.

[mat_the_cat]

Had quite a busy weekend, but made minor progress by replacing the core plugs. They'd have probably been OK, but for the cost it's a lot easier to change them now!

 

 

 

The biggest result has been permission to build it all up in the sitting room - nice and warm with less risk of condensation.

[Guest Hooli]

Building engines indoors is for winners.

 

When I eventually get to fit out my workshop (just a house to finish first) I'm putting a log burner in to save that conversation.

[RayMK]

Had quite a busy weekend, but made minor progress by replacing the core plugs. They'd have probably been OK, but for the cost it's a lot easier to change them now!

 

20170205_1139171.jpg

 

20170205_2022091.jpg

 

The biggest result has been permission to build it all up in the sitting room - nice and warm with less risk of condensation.

 

Wise move (core plugs).  Two on mine are seeping.  Unfortunately mine is not a V8.  Incidentally, since the departure of my wife nearly ten years ago through lateness, my son and I have newly discovered such indoor freedom.  He has bikes everywhere, even one in his bedroom.  I sometimes think that a bit of female discipline might make me less embarrassed when friends/relatives/daughter turn up unannounced .

[Guest Hooli]

I've got a mate who once kept an A65 in the airing cupboard while he was restoring it. The neighbours around his flat were less than impressed when he started it indoors to check it worked before squeezing it in the lift to get it down to ground level.

[mat_the_cat]

Had quite a productive evening tonight, as first of all I drilled the holes in the valley to allow oil to drain over the timing gear:

 

 

Then put the camshaft in after smearing the journals with assembly lube.

 

I then gave the main bearing seats a final clean-up, and fitted the shells (really hoping that when this picture loads, all the shells have holes in them...)

 

Again used lube on the shells (including the thrust faces of the centre man bearing), and lowered the crank into position.

 

Main bearing caps were cleaned up and lowered into position, with the rear cap having these seals pressed into the side grooves. I also used a thin smear of silicone sealant underneath the rear cap.

 

All in place and torqued up, with the crank still spinning smoothly!

 

Lastly a check that the crank seal is in position. I'd read in Haynes to press that into place after fitting the rear main bearing cap. However to me it seemed easiest to slide it on the crank with it out of the block (with oil on the lip) as then I could see behind the lip to make sure it was seated correctly, and just move it into position whilst torquing the cap down.

[dollywobbler]

Ace. Because I've watched Roadkill Garage, I know things about breaking in camshafts. Not very much though. How do you do it? And how do you avoid trashing the rest of the engine? Isn't the drill to take it to fairly high RPM straight away?

[mat_the_cat]

As I understand it (and I'm far from an expert!) the idea is to bed the cam lobe and lifter surfaces together, but avoid idle speeds - as this is where (splash) lubrication is lowest but also forces on the nose of the lobe are highest. 2k rpm is a figure I've read, but good to vary it slightly.

 

The new cam has a phosphate coating on the lobes, which helps the oil stick to it, and also acts as a dry lubricant if required.

http://www.phosphating.net/manganese-phosphating.html

I'm also going to be using plenty of assembly grease on it, but haven't coated it yet as that will just attract dust.

 

Hopefully the rest of the engine can take 2k rpm for 20 minutes without damage! I'll obviously be priming the oil pump with a drill prior to cranking.

[Pete-M]

Pack the oil pump with vaseline, then it'll prime a lot more easily.

[Guest Hooli]

Excellent work, I do like a good engine build.

[mat_the_cat]

Pack the oil pump with vaseline, then it'll prime a lot more easily.

 

It's actually dead easy to prime as it is, with the remote filter head. All I've done before is pop off one of the hoses, connect a funnel to that and fill with oil.

 

And now for something controversial!

 

 

I've not gone for the upgraded cam chain, but remained with the original type. I was thinking of something like a Cloyes duplex chain, but the company who've supplied the bits reckoned they weren't all they are cracked up to be. Although arguably a better design, apparently the quality can be a bit variable and they've seen a couple of actual failures. Whereas with the originals they don't tend to actually suddenly fail, just gradually become slack.

 

Anyway, it's now on, for better or worse...

 

 

And a quick before and after comparison!