vulgalour Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'd just rather fit the correct rad. I want to avoid bodging if I can (don't look at the gutters). Banger Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRover Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I would invest in a manual tyre machine, the £25 for changing yours would just about buy one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 The Renault has been on the receiving end. Since 65mustang (from RetroRides) found that radiator, another supplier I'd previously contacted returned a 'not in stock' so at present that radiator is my last great hope for a stock item, if it doesn't pan out then we're looking at fitting an alternative rad I think. In the meantime, the emulsion tube/air corrector jet is away being repaired and the wheels came off so I can get the new tyres fitted (@DodgeRover: a manual machine would be a good idea, I just have no time free to use it atm so I don't mind paying for the convenience of someone else doing the fitting and balancing for me). That made sorting out the front joint on the exhaust a quick and easy job today, just got the backbox to do now. Until the wheels come back the car is on stands as I haven't a spare set of wheels I can bolt on in the meantime. The Renault has got gradually more difficult to push and with the wheels off I've found out why; front brakes are now stuck almost completely on. Going to have to get the calipers off and find out what's going on there, I suspect the pistons have just got stuck and need working a bit to free them off. So just a case of waiting for things to come back now. Radiator will happen when it happens and the tyres should be fitted Thursday/Friday, won't do the car any harm being on stands for a couple of days in the meantime. strangeangel, Banger Kenny, wuvvum and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhard65 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 With the front calipers strip them properly and fit new seals. Seal kits shouldn't be hard to find. I have got the Renault parts bible PR900 here and there are only 2 choices of radiator 7701 393 974 for the R1180 Renault 6 or 7701 393 975 for the R1181 Renault 6 I am fairly sure they are the numbers for exchange rads and 7701 348 916 R1180 and 7701 348 273 R1181 and for new rads. The 7701 348 916 also fits Renault 4 and here is a listing for one with sizes on it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorkuhler-Rena-R4-07-1961-1993-/371838159329?hash=item56934809e1:g:EoUAAOSwEzxYeCSm. I can look up more part numbers for you if required. The R1181 or R1180 should be on an oval plate under the bonnet. Some earlier cars had a diamond shape plate but I am pretty sure the 6 would be oval. Hopefully I have found the right numbers it has been 30 years since I last used this book for more than just a door stop. Complete front calipers should be Bendix and part number 7701 499 276 and 277 n/s and o/s according to this book the R1180 uses front drums so yours should be an R1181. Eddie Honda, oldcars, mercedade and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 It is indeed an 1181. At least, everything mechanical and the chassis is an 1181, the bodyshell is from a different car so it has a diamond plate on the bulkhead which likely has no relevance to what's actually in the car. Now the radiator is another problem. For the 6 I will agree, I've only found 2 listings specifically for the 6. The first is the kind you linked above, also used on the R4, and is the earlier type. It fits close to the engine as it relies on cooling from a mechanical fan and the fixings to hold it in the engine bay are different to those on later cars - slots into the steering rack and has a different top brace set up. It's a narrower core but a taller unit as they put the tanks top and bottom rather than on the sides. To fit the early rad to a later car is quite difficult as a result. The later rad is wider and shorter, and has capacity for a fan switch as it takes an electric fan and the whole unit bolts to the front of the car. This also means Renault could relocate the overflow bottle and fit a more substantial brace across the engine bay where the old radiator used to fit, which in turn means I'd have to relocate that again to fit the earlier radiator. What I've been able to do is find plenty of listings for both radiator types. The big problem is that all of the listings, so far with only one exception (the 64mustang one in the Netherlands), have come back as having no stock for the later correct type. The earlier type is much easier to acquire and places do carry stock of that one, it just doesn't fit without a lot of work. Annoyingly, none of the R4 rads actually fit my car and the early R5 ones that might are quite difficult to find and I have no evidence to say they will fit beyond looking at some pictures that make it look likely. Much the same is the case with the Mk1 Clio rads, they look like they should work, but I have no proof. When I did the front brakes I didn't renew the seals. This was because the calipers were moving freely and no leaks were present. There are still no leaks present and no loss of fluid so I imagine the seals are still okay, unless I'm misunderstanding the purpose of them. There wasn't any corrosion on the pistons or bores, everything looked pretty clean and tidy surprisingly. Not sure what the front calipers are, I had a look just now and there's what looks like DBA embossed on them which I think is a Bendix mark? Banger Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhard65 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Yours will have the rad for an R1181 7701 348 273 which is different to the R1180 which is for the drum braked car. That rad only fits the 6 and came up with nothing on ebay but I haven't looked anywhere else. They aren't age dependent just either an 1180 or 1181. It is actually one of the simpler ones to look parts up for as there are only 2 models. Are the dust seals still on the calipers ? If they are missing as I found with the Horizon rust will quixckly form and cause them to stick. With something that has sat so long they really want stripping and checking properly. You might get away with seals but remember they are rubber and will be well past the recommended change time. It isn't worth doing half a job with brakes as they are rather important even in a Renault 6.https://spareto.co.uk/oe/renault-77-01-348-273 that should be the rad but no idea if its in stock mercedade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Presume you have tried these guys? http://www.buycarparts.co.uk/autoparts-manufacturer/prasco/radiator-parts/10203/renault-6-118 I just had a trawl on Leboncoin without any luck but I find that site a bit random sometimes. luckily, Radiator in French is Radiateur which should eliminate confusion. Quite surprised the French didn't call it a Reservoir du Froid (tank of coldness) or something equally Gallic. Ebay Spain might be worth trying too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Lots of funky bits and bobs over in that there Spain - did you say you had issues with switches? Seems to be a few here: http://www.ebay.es/sch/Renault-recamb-y-acces/73767/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=renault+6 Also found a radiator place in Germany called Rexbo who seem to list the radiator you need but again I have no idea if they actually have any or if you have already tried them https://www.rexbo.eu/renault/6-118-69/radiator-c100103 The 6 was also popular in Argentina should you wish to investigate if there is a Gumtree equivalent in Buenos Aries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Parky: wrong kind for the rad and the site looks really similar so it may be one I've tried before. The switches are okay when they've been played with, I think they just need using more than anything. The Princess was just the same when I got it. eBay.es is a good source for a lot of things, they seem to have got more of the facelift 6 so they can be quite good for trim bits. Mike reminded me tonight that the new driveshaft boots haven't been fitted yet so, with the wheels being off and the car on axle stands we're going to try and get the new boots fitted this weekend. It'll also provide an opportunity to put fresh gearbox oil in of the required quantity since there's very little in the 'box at the moment with everything being in and out so frequently. purplebargeken and Banger Kenny 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Just a little job today. Went and picked this little lot up. One of the rims needs attention. Going to give it a good going over with a power tool, paint the bit the tyre sits against and pass it back to them to get the fifth tyre fitted. Not mega important just yet. Looks better for new tyres. Annoyingly, I have found that one back brake has now joined the party and stuck on so I only have one functioning rear drum now, the other three are all stuck on. I've not had chance to do anything about it. I went for Kumho Solus tyres as they were middle of the road on price and ratings. Engineered in Korea is proudly printed on the label, though what that actually means is really anyone's guess. £7 per rim for fitting, balancing, new valves and disposal of the old tyres and inner tubes. Plus VAT. alf892, danthecapriman, trigger and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel bickle Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I have loads of spare early 3 stud rims if you get stuck. Some early hubcaps too -if you want, once your brakes are sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 I'll give you a shout if I need a wheel. I imagine the early hubcaps you've got are in half-decent shape, which would be a shame to put on this particular example. If they're not and they look terrible, then let me know, obviously. nigel bickle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Kumhos are good, standard fit on some Kia's I think. Found them very acceptable on my Picanto and a good mid ranger. What colour are you going for with the wheels? adw1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 The colour they are right now; sort of a two tone ferrous oxide metallic brown and disappointment resale silver. Uncle Jimmy, Banger Kenny, Pillock and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Classy. Mally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Today I got the choke cable fitted, finally. It's been a bit of a faff and I've had several attempts at this only to have the cable vanish once it was pushed into the guide in the dashboard. Today, with the help of a knitting needle, I bested it! You have to sort of fish around through the flaps in the scuttle section until you hook the cable and then you can feed it through the grommet into the engine bay. That's a job off the list. I also did a first-assembly of the carburettor that Mike cleaned up. Final assembly will be done now I know everything is there, this is just to show how nice and shiny it now is so not everything is present in these shots. The guttering on one end has twisted and peeled a bit for some reason. I'll likely just glue this back down with some PU adhesive at some point, it can wait for now. My thanks to Mr_Bollox for his contribution to the project in the form of this important period accessory. Nugget the Corsa is up for grabs because Mike needed a small estate car, which he now has. If anyone is interested in getting themselves a solid little Corsa B whose last two MoTs have had no advisories and which has had all the welding and work it's every likely to need, I'll be happy to pass your details on to Mike. It's been a super little car for the past couple of years and totally dependable, having done several trips from Middlesbrough to London and back without any complaints. It's never broken down while we've owned it and we'll both be a little sad to see it go. We're hoping it finds a new owner that will look after it rather than one that runs it into the ground and it's a shame it has no place in our fleets otherwise I reckon we'd be keeping it. RayMK, RobT, purplebargeken and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 Not been able to do as much as I've wanted as I've been shot down with flu for the past week or so. Here's a little report on the carb. The replacement air jet I got turned out to be brass plated, which I had not expected at all given that I didn't go for the cheapest option, so silver soldering didn't work, it just tried to melt the end of the jet that connects to the emulsion tube. That means I couldn't get the two parts stuck together and I was pretty fed up about it, my only other option was going to be a new carburettor at £100+ until I realised after a bit of research that Chemical Metal should be suitable for glueing the emulsion tube and corrector jet together since it's tolerant to 120C and fuel resistant. I've also learned that Solex can be an absolute nightmare to get parts for, they just don't seem to have the support of things like Weber or SU. If someone hadn't pulled out the original emulsion tube and broken it (long before I got hold of the car) before jamming in the wrong kind of air corrector, then we wouldn't be having this problem. The radiator is also a cause of frustration. The promising source has gone suspiciously quiet so I imagine that's going to be another let down. In frustration I scoured the internet again and started watching some videos of Spanish R6s. Couldn't understand a word as I'm terrible at Spanish, but I could compare the radiators in some of the cars with replacements I'd considered using. It looks like some owners are making use of early R5 radiators and I've managed to find listings for both new and second hand ones. The R5 radiator is not a direct replacement but the dimensions are similar enough that I should be able to get one to fit. Here's an early R5 engine bay to illustrate. Most importantly I have been able to find both new and used early R5 radiators listed and they range in price from about £30 (plus postage) for used ones to around the £60 (plus postage) mark for brand new ones. The mounting points are different between the 5 and 6 but other than that, it's close enough and at this point, the only sensible way out of this particular issue. My job list stands as follows (as far as I can remember):> source and fit new radiator> fit backbox> repair front light connectors> sort out battery clamp (original is too short for new battery)> repair emulsion tube so carb can be refitted> refit throttle cable spring> get front calipers working properly strangeangel, Braddon81, Asimo and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Decided to buy an early Renault 5 radiator which is arriving in a few days, I hope. Since the listing says 9 available and 1 sold (2 now they've sold one to me) there's a better chance it's actually in stock. No more expensive jobs I know of after that, providing the carb repair works. RayMK, Skizzer, Braddon81 and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Today I did some work on the Renault and failed to tick off any jobs on my list. Oh well. I wanted to try and get it running since the new radiator arrives next week and I'd got the emulsion tube/air corrector repaired and the carburettor all rebuilt. So, plonked the carburettor on the car, reconnected the battery, stuck the key in the ignition and.... dead. Flat battery. So I had to get the big red booster pack out. Which worked quite well. Key back in the ignition and we have life. Also, strangely, the headlights came on main beam once the jump leads were connected even though I'm sure the lights hadn't been left on, it's the sort of thing you would notice and you can't put main beam on by accident. Very odd, anyway, got the lights turned off and let the car charge up for a little bit. Tried again. I'd rebuilt some of the vacuum/breather system, you can't get the original Renault T piece and my old one was so fragile it broke even more when repair was attempted. Therefore, I've used a modern T-piece and various lengths of pipe to mimic what was originally there. I'm missing the one that runs from the T-piece to the rocker cover because I didn't have a suitable diameter piece of pipe but since I wasn't sure that it was enough to stop the car running, I tried it anyway. You can also see here where the float drain bolt had leaked onto the manifold, I did tighten the bolt up after the photograph was taken, it just needed a quick tweak. If nothing else, it provides proof that fuel is indeed reaching the float chamber. As a last ditch attempt we put a short squirt of Easy Start into the carb which rewarded us with a big bang and a little bit of fire at the carburettor and nothing more. So, from my limited experience, I'd say the ignition timing and/or plug leads are in the wrong order. Also, I suspect the pipework around the carburettor and the restriction of the T-piece are inadequate at present to make it work as it should, I understand that it provides some sort of pressure to allow fuel to be drawn through the carburettor correctly. I know a couple of the pipes connect to the cooling system too, presumably to prevent heat soak what with the carb sitting right on top of the manifold and not having a heat shield. I'm trying not to be frustrated now because I know it's something really simple holding things up, I'm just beyond my own experience with whatever the problem is. Tomorrow, providing I'm feeling well enough, I'll go through the ignition timing side of things to make sure that's all as it should be. I know I'm getting a spark, I know I have fuel, I know I have decent oil pressure and I know I have good compression. I also know the static timing is correct so there's no need to pull the engine out to recheck that. CGSB, Banger Kenny, RayMK and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Longbridge Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 [Willing Crapaud to cough back into life] Banger Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayMK Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'm sure that the other R6 owner(s) will offer advice on the carb pipework - you are nearly there! My Renault 12 was sensitive to the state of the rocker box breather. The rubber tube which went from the rocker box to the carb or air cleaner had a plastic choke (orifice) to restrict flow. When all was clean, the car ran well. If the orifice became bunged up (common), idling was difficult to sustain until the engine warmed up. Disconnecting the tube entirely but not blanking it off simply stopped the engine. If you have a Haynes manual, it should give some details on the pipework set-up (he says optimistically ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 It could be just that then. Mike picked up his pipe offcuts on the way home today so we'll see what fits tomorrow and who knows, maybe it'll fire up? It cranks happily enough and pumps fuel and makes sparks. I checked the book and it looks like the plug leads are in the correct order so that narrows it down to weird pipe necessity and distributor, I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimo Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 If there is no restrictor in that tube to the inlet manifold, I would expect that to stop it running. Engine is sucking fresh air in through the tube instead of through the carburrettor hence mixture is too weak to burn. Block that tee piece and have another go. I'd get it running first, and then try and sort the breather system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryoldcortina Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Backfiring on easystart sounds like wrong plug order to me. There isn't enough movement in the distributor to cause a spark with an inlet valve open. alf892 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1703 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Is the distributor driven from the oil pump on a skew drive? If you fit the oil pump wrong on some cars it puts the timing out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 @asimo: got more pipes now so I should be able to effectively block it by sticking a bolt in an end of pipe, or similar. There is restriction in the T piece, it's got two big sides and one small side and was the closest match I could get to the original NLA component. @scary: if it is, then that means the diagram in the book isn't making any sense and it's a very clear diagram so I'm more inclined to think that... @michael: yes, that's how it works. So this is probably part of the issue. It would be easy for me to have put that in 180 or whatever out I imagine which would, I surmise, give the problem of backfiring through the carb. I'm learning on the job. I feel really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1703 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 If.... that is the case, take plugs out, get piston at tdc on #1 with both valves closed, see where the rotor arm points too. Twist distributer until rotor arm is in the centre of any of the distributor cap contacts and call that number 1, tip ex a 1 on it and renumber your leads making sure you number them in the right direction Job jobbed,saves taking the distributor drive out again Banger Kenny and mat_the_cat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Au contrere, if you're learning on the job, you're not stupid. Try, try and yet try again. You'll get there in the end and you do have helpful advice (and in lieu of that, unhelpful but uplifting cheerful comment) rather than just sacking it in as a lost cause. Sounds like you have everything you need to continue, just not quite in the right order. Edit: A set of these was helpful to determine if the plugs are actualy getting spark, and in the correct order rather than tracking across the inside of the cap, and always going to one plug, for instance: Although there are many permutations of plug wire orders, if you know the firing order that cuts you down to a 1:4 error rate for the indexed position of the leads to the distributor. I'd imagine that big T with the pipe to the intake manifold allows enough air to be drawn to make a cold engine difficult to start, agreed on the points made about restriction above. In the past I have made restrictors from allsorts of odd things- one was the metal needle thing used for inflating basketballs, with a pipe clamped to each side. That and the lids from glue bottles that have the piece you can trim along the length to make the hole any size you need.. but those can be a bit awkward to get the pipes to fit to and can come undone when subject to fuel vapors. --Phil RobT, Banger Kenny, mercedade and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 I didn't get chance to work on the Renault today but I did get chance to go through theory and understand what I might have got wrong so I have some directions to look at this coming week. The restriction I've got through that T-piece might not be enough, it has to go down to something like the Baseball needle thing and I don't think mine does. I wonder if I could put a cap on the narrow end of the T-piece and drill an appropriate hole in that before wedging the pipe onto it, I reckon it would work in theory. Enough Renault owners have popped up to say the same about the restriction in the pipes being important that I reckon that's one of the biggest reasons it won't run. The other problem is working out which is cylinder 1. That sounds a bit daft until you realise the engine isn't oriented in the conventional sense, what with the gearbox being at the front and its rear-mounted roots. It's possible that I'm confusing 1 and 4 when setting the ignition timing and that could very well be the root of the firing order problem. It won't matter how many times I follow the diagram in the book, if I've confused 1 and 4 the plug leads and distributor will never be in the correct place. I know I'm getting spark to the plugs, we couldn't get those extension tubes to fit but we could pull a plug with its lead and check for spark, which is what we did. I also know the points are working and I have to assume the condensor is too. In theory at least, correcting the firing order and sorting out the pipework should see the car at least attempting to run. If it doesn't then I go back to the mechanical stuff and start again... again. What I may also do is sort out some of the jobs that I can't cock up, like the CV boots and the wiring plugs, just so I have that little morale boost and confidence to deal with this bigger non-running issue. RobT and Banger Kenny 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1703 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 When confusing 1 and 4,whichever cylinder is the one with both valves closed at tdc needs to have something to fire it, so all that matters is that you have the rotor arm pointing to a contact in the cap with enough adjustment to advance /retard to fine tune it alf892 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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