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40+ tonnes of Boatshite - stoveshite update 16/2/19

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#331 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:06 PM

This is a 2 stroke diesel isn't it? Excuse my thickness but does exhaust design have has much effect on engine performance as on a petrol 2 stroke?

#332 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:35 PM

This is a 2 stroke diesel isn't it? Excuse my thickness but does exhaust design have has much effect on engine performance as on a petrol 2 stroke?


Probably not, given the supercharger is mostly responsible for the breathing of the engine rather than precisely designed resonator chambers in the exhaust system.

In theory...quite prepared to be proven wrong though.

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#333 OFFLINE   somewhatfoolish

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 08:50 PM

It still needs to be freeflowing, as CND's experience with the wet exhaust illustrated.


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#334 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 08:24 PM

Have made a bit more progress on the Stove Flue mentioned a few posts back.
The condensation that forms in the flue mixes with the soot and creates sulphuric acid which has really taken its toll in the eight or so years since I fitted all of this originally.



Components of the engine room section of the flue removed:

368.jpg



Crusty:

369.jpg



And after clearing the rust off, what started life as 10mm thick steel is now paper thin:

370.jpg



Vertical section out of the funnel on the right, replacement section of stainless on the left:

367.jpg



New flanges drilled and fittings ready to weld up:

371.jpg



Flange Arc welded onto pipe using 316L rods, TIG would have been neater but I don't have one:

372.jpg


373.jpg


374.jpg



Forward flange where the flue comes through the bulkhead from the stove in the fore cabin:

375.jpg



Overview showing the new T piece with soot trap fitted at the base of the funnel:

376.jpg


Working on making the section that goes inside the funnel now which is tricky as both flanges are at differing angles and it needs to be exactly the right length as I don't want to take the top off the funnel to fit it.

Cheers for reading
Dave
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#335 OFFLINE   Matty

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 08:29 PM

I attempt to do this shit for a living and that MMA looks more than neat to me. If you can tig better than that you have a talent...

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#336 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 08:37 PM

I've only ever used Tig on mild steel and it generally made me realise that unless I spent the rest of my life doing it I'd be better of paying someone else when I need something done!

I'm good at downhand MMA but my vertical is average and my overhead is a mess! To weld the ends on the Polylok flexible pipe I tried stainless wire in the Mig but i think the gas i was using (tried standard mixed and pure argon) let me down as it was a pretty painful experience to weld. Cant decide if i should risk trying it with 2.5 rods to do the other end or take it to my local Tig matey..
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#337 ONLINE   UltraWomble

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 08:39 PM

Is there anything you can do to stop that from happening?


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#338 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 08:46 PM

Hopefully the new flue will last a lot better as I'm using stainless steel rather than mild steel like the previous one.
Also hoping that the soot trap at the bottom of the funnel will mean its easier to keep clean, therefore it should burn more efficiently and produce less shit in the flue anyway. Also I've done away with quite a few bends compared to my previous attempt - I'll lay out the old bits on the floor for a photo to show just how many bends and horizontal sections there were before i skip it all.
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#339 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 08:56 PM

As promised here is a photo showing the old sections I've removed so far laid out in there correct orientation, the long vertical section ends up inside the funnel:

377.jpg



Compare that to the new stainless version which does away with the two 90 degree bends on the left and instead has just the one 45 degree bend:

376.jpg


There's another horizontal section in enamelled steel flue sections that goes from the other side of the bulkhead along under the wheelhouse floor then through a 45 degree bend to kick it across towards centre of the boat and down to the top of the stove through another two 45 degree bends arranged to make a 90 which I haven't removed yet, the plan will be again to replace all that with one 45 degree bend coming out of the top of the stove and a length of the polylok flexible tubing.

Its all a very non-ideal arrangement but is how its been since the boat was built. whatever you do theres a significant horizontal run and it has to avoid the wheelhouse and the lube oil tank in the engine room so bends are unavoidable.

Dave
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#340 OFFLINE   drivewaymyway

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 09:24 PM

Boaty McShiteface, bloody brilliant thread !!!! Thanks for sharing..


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#341 OFFLINE   Minimad5

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 11:29 AM

Spot on work squire.
Quote watanabe:
If I put rusty metal into Warren's minge machine, does it come clean and sparkling, like gash Calgon?

#342 OFFLINE   JoeyEunos

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:15 PM

I've been off work with flu today, Im not ashamed to say I've worked my way through the whole thread and wowzers, what a read!

The bad news is I now want a boat *Patiently waits for roffle to commence*
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#343 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:26 PM

Boaty McShiteface, bloody brilliant thread !!!! Thanks for sharing..

 
 

Spot on work squire.

 
Cheers Fellas, I'm never really sure what to post / how much detail to go into. Photos of a stove flue aren't exactly the most exciting thing to look at! But I find it quite reassuring when I'm feeling down/underachieving to be able to look back through the thread and see that progress has been made somewhere even if its not something major!

 

I've been off work with flu today, Im not ashamed to say I've worked my way through the whole thread and wowzers, what a read!

The bad news is I now want a boat *Patiently waits for roffle to commence*


Glad its provided some entertainment! Although surely if theres one lesson to be learnt from this thread its that buying a large boat is a bad idea unless you have 10+ years to dedicate all your spare time and money to!

Cheers
Dave
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#344 ONLINE   UltraWomble

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 08:02 PM

 
 Cheers Fellas, I'm never really sure what to post / how much detail to go into. Photos of a stove flue aren't exactly the most exciting thing to look at! But I find it quite reassuring when I'm feeling down/underachieving to be able to look back through the thread and see that progress has been made somewhere even if its not something major!

 

There are some quality threads on AS, the Sentinel thread, this , the Scimitar, the Rebel thread, the Granny Coupe rebuild are frankly amongst the top, if not the top - the detail, commitment and problem solving skills combined with fabrication skills and attention to detail are what rank these so highly.

 

Presented with even a fraction of the problems you have sorted out most of us would either throw in the towel and turn it into a Viking funeral pyre boat or bodge it with a bit of ply wood and some expanding foam. Your attention to detail not only does you proud but will ensure that the boat lives on for many many years to come.


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#345 OFFLINE   DeeJay

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 08:15 PM

^^^^What he said^^^^



#346 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:04 PM

Couldn't have put it any better.

 

I think a lot of us are on that part of the spectrum where the details are everything, so the more the better. So long as it doesn't drag you away from actually carrying out the work too much!


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#347 OFFLINE   62 Austin

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:32 PM

You could take it on those canals in the UK or Ireland and it would be a real speedboat by comparison.....if you could clear the bridges. 



#348 OFFLINE   Tickman

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:43 PM

Couldn't have put it any better.

 

I think a lot of us are on that part of the spectrum where the details are everything, so the more the better. So long as it doesn't drag you away from actually carrying out the work too much!

 

This sums it up for me and looking at the V8 install in the Stella at Shitefest the details are everything :)


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#349 OFFLINE   Slartibartfast

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 10:38 AM

I agree, even though I understand about 5% of the terminology, the detail has been excellent and made this thread an absolutely cracking read. Great work and I look forward to what progress comes next.


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#350 OFFLINE   Bfg

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 07:05 PM

.

Great thread ..Thanks and well done the new flexi-flue looks a much better shape for the flue gases.   ;)

 

I've just made my own boat stove ('Tiny Stove' thread) and am now just about to make its flue.  I seriously considered flexi-tubing in aluminium (as it would dissipate chimney heat into the room better) and in stainless (for its resistance to corrosion) but each of the foil types appeared too flimsy and so would probably look crap after just a short time.  I also looked at the polylok flexible tubing in stainless (which is pretty expensive but seemingly robust) and reluctantly decided against it mainly because the polylok isn't totally gas tight for inside use. The data I read said it is good for under a vehicle but the recommendation was to wrap the tube when used for flue gases inside a structure.

 

I also wanted tight bends so that was also a factor in my particular application. Consequently I've opted for aluminium 45-degree mandrel bent tubes ..which I now have to join ..and are likely to be a right pain fitting through bulkheads. But my question is ; whether you were aware of the polylok not being as tight, or whether that wasn't an issue on your vessel - because it was only being used in sealed-away non-accommodation spaces.?  Or else you feel the polylok might not be gas tight for vehicle exhaust pressures - but is in fact gas-tight for the negligible-pressure of stove gases ?

 

I hope you don't mind my asking. Thank you,

Bfg     


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#351 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:24 PM

In my experience of using poly-lok in other applications it always seems pretty gas tight. I wouldn't want to use it in an application where it was gas under any sort of pressure obviously.
I have bought several rolls of 1" dia fibreglass strand lagging which will get fitted if its a problem and stitch a cover up out of a roll of fireproof barrier fabric I have.

Until I get the stove rebuilt and fire it up with a gas meter I guess its a bit unknown!

Dave
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#352 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 06:48 PM

Following on from the previous post I have now got the stove flue refitted into the funnel which was a bit of a struggle single handed!


Funnel pipe re-lagged and ready to refit:

378.jpg

Then feeling that things were progressing well i decided to take the top off the stove to look at repairing some slight corrosion in order to use the stove this winter and look at doing a full rebuild in the summer.
Sadly as soon as i took the top off and gave it a blast with the pressure washer it became apparent there wasn't much metal left under the enamel!



Stove top plate:

379.jpg



Inside the stove after taking the top off:

380.jpg


Back when I first got the boat I stripped the stove down, shot blasted it and welded up various cracked castings on the inside as well as replacing the oven lining with stainless steel.

I was always aware that at some point the top plate would need replacing so have made a point of buying every Esse Doric stove that has come up for sale in the last 10 years...

Some have donated parts to mine such as the optional hinged hotplate cover, and then been sold on.
Those that have been the right handing to match mine (oven on the right as opposed to the seemingly more common left hand oven) I have stripped down and kept ready for the day that I needed the parts.

Which means I now had three options for stove fronts:


Option A, my original stove front which is sadly very corroded around the door areas meaning they don't seal very well:

381.jpg


Option B, An immaculate front from a stove which was purchased many years ago in newcastle and brought back in the suzuki carry:

383.jpg


Option C, The front from a later "improved doric" which benefits from rope seals on the doors and plastic insulated handles, the rest of this stove was fabricated from sheet steel rather than the cast iron panels used in the earlier stoves and was in very poor condition. (this stove was bought in wiltshire then brought back to the isle of wight via a detour to cornwall for a weekend) :

382.jpg


Both these spare fronts are taller than my original stove as they have the skirt to hide the legs cast as an integral part of the main panel. My stove is mounted direct onto a metal hearth/stove pan but would have been used with bolt on legs and a tin skirt in a household setting.

I like the rope seals on the "improved doric" but dislike the plastic handles, It also has corrosion around the cleaning door under the oven that would be hard to repair.

My original front is sadly corroded around the doors to the point it seems silly to re-use it.
I had hoped to mix and match fronts and doors but they actually all have slight differences (hinge pin diameters, latch positions etc)

I think my collection spans 1980 (black stove) to 1994 (improved doric) with my original stove being made in the mid 80's.

Esse / smith and wellstood appear to have gone bust several times during this period and repeatedly moved premises including a move from scotland to lancashire.
Every stove I've seen has a different makers plate and address and it seems that as time moved on casting patterns were lost or damaged and more parts were instead fabricated from steel culminating in the cream stove which apart from the front, doors and top plate has no cast iron parts at all.

I decided to use the black front as its in the best condition, I cut the lower skirt off and got a quote to re-enamel it in white to match my original stove.


Front trimmed down:

384.jpg

That picture also shows the hearth / stove pan which I made last time I rebuilt the stove, shaped like a giant baking tray it has a flatbar lip welded around the edge (its upside down in that photo) it sat on two lengths of 4" channel to space it up from the cabin floor and provide an air gap under it.
The stove was then dropped into it and I grouted some tiles into the exposed section of tray in front of the stove. It all worked well but because the stove was dropped down into the tray you couldn't get at any of the lower bolts which fix the side and rear panels to the stove base as they were hidden behind the edge of the pan.
Also any condensation or water which ended up in the stove would end up in the bottom of the tray under the stove with no way to know it was there.


So I'm cutting the front section that holds the tiles off:

385.jpg


Then flipping the rest of the tray over so that the lip around the bit the stove sits on will hang down instead of up:

386.jpg


I just need a section of flatbar to put along the step between the two then weld it all back together and modify the sections of channel it sits on. this means the tiles will drop into a recess as before (with a slight lip sticking up above the tiles to stop ash going on the floor) But the stove will be sat up above the edge so I can get to its lower bolts easily for future disassembly.

Cheers
Dave
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#353 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 08:25 AM

In preparation for having the stove front re-enamelled I removed all the 1/4" unc studs which stick out the back. Most snapped so needed drilling out and re-tapping:

387.jpg

Dropped it off at the enamelers on tuesday (factoid: There main business is making all the enamel signs for london underground)

Sadly on thursday afternoon I had an email from the company saying that during grit blasting to remove the old enamel they had found a hole in the front plate:

388.jpg

389.jpg


They gave me the option of them attempting a repair at my own risk for £150. Luckily they are just round the corner so I arranged to go and have a look,

It appears to have been a casting defect where some mould sand had fallen into the back whilst originally being cast. Grit blasting had blown the sand out leaving a paper thin area which had broken through.
I went and had a look at 4.45pm on thursday, Decided it didn't warrant £150 to have it repaired so chucked it back in the van and brought it back to the workshop.

Cracked out the Mig welder and die grinder and filled up the 12mm diameter crater from the back of the panel then chucked a bit of weld on from the front and ground it back.
Stuck it back in the van and dropped it back at the enamelling factory by 5.15pm!


Back of repair:

390.jpg


And the front:

391.jpg


And a quick overview of the newly blasted panel before I returned it:

392.jpg


In an ideal world I would have used stainless or dissimilar metal rods and Arc welded it (which was my original intention) but as its really only cosmetic and non structural Mig'ing it was quicker and has introduced less stress to the casting. Hopefully the enamelled parts might be ready for collection towards the end of next week.


I've also had a nice wooden packing crate arrive from Ireland:

393.jpg



Which contained a replacement set of new firebricks:

394.jpg


The back brick appears to be thicker than my original (and ribbed, presumably for extra pleasure) but I think that because its made as an exact alternative to the back boiler that would usually be fitted instead of the brick.
My original thinner back brick had some low density firebricks packed behind it to make up the thickness, not sure which solution is more efficient but overall I'm very happy with the quality of the bricks especially as everywhere else said they were no longer available. Dineen Refractories was the company, nice people to deal with.


Back brick compared to a back boiler:

395.jpg


Low density (plaster and vermiculite?) firebricks which were packed behind the old firebrick to add to the thickness:

396.jpg


And lastly a photo showing just how corrosive the mixture of condensation, flue tar and soot that formed in the old chimney then ran back into the stove was - This was the baffle plate from under the oven, I made it about 7 years ago out of 1.2mm 316L stainless steel:

397.jpg


hopefully next time it'll be a slightly more interesting post with some shiny new enamel bits, I also need to think about making some replacements for a few cracked cast iron panels on the inside of the stove.
Plan is to fabricate replacements from 5mm stainless plate as previous experience of welded repairs just resulted in them cracking in a different place after a few years.

Thanks for reading and I hope some of it has been of interest to someone!

Cheers
Dave
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#354 OFFLINE   DeeJay

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 10:01 AM

If the rest of the stove has a finish like this it seems a shame to enamel.

392.jpg


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#355 OFFLINE   anonymous user

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 11:02 AM

I love this thread
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