Ford Ka - spirtual successor the Alfasud and BLMC 1100/1300

[Ross_K]

Anyway, back to the Ka(k) - why are the sparkplugs such a problem in this particular incarnation of the Kent engine? I can't recall issues with previous models of Fiestas, or even Escorts/Cortinas/Capris/Anglias that had basically the same lump?

Honest John sez:

Spark plugs of original ohv iron block and head engine may either have corroded into the head or been over tightened (taper fit) which means head removal to drill them out. Should be removed every year, coppergreased and refitted, but since this could snap them they are not usually touched.

Recalls...TSB issued advising dealers to use copper grease on spark plugs to aid removal.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=106This is a good one as well:

Overtightening the pollen filter apparently cracks the windscreen.

QWOLITY

[Cavcraft]

I think that the reason that Vauxhalls sold so well, especially Astrays Chavaliers and Vectras, was due to the huge share in the fleet market they held in the 80's/90's. This is not necessarily that they were better cars, or more reliable. It's due to the fact that fleets are bought by, in general, an accountant who looks at the discount they can get from the manufacturer and the delivery lead time. I would never buy a Vauxhall product, only through personal choice, despite one of my mates having a Corsa Auto that has given him fine service for the last few years. Why would i not? I just find that they fall dynamically short of other manufacturers, they seem sparsley equipped, utilising quite old tecnology, and under developed. I mean have you actually looked at the driving position you had to use in a Nova? The steering wheel is completey offset causing you to twist into a weird semi reclined position to avoid backache.I was given a use of company cars from a pool fleet years back. The choices were on any given day - Ford Sierra 1.8 GLXi, Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0 GLi, Nissan Primera 2.0 SGX and a Volvo 440 2.0i I would always choose the Primera followed by the Volvo, due to the fact that they were more comfortable, better equipped and just seemed better thought out. The Sierra was awful in crosswinds, and well the Cavalier was just dull. The example we had lasted well, never really broke down, apart from the fact that it seemed to start to rot before the others. I think my point here is that although they are competant cars they just hold no interest. I have had a GM Saab 9-3 recently, which for all intents, is a Cavalier in Ikea gear, and to be honest i do miss it (despite its insessant bings and bongs) But it shows that something far more interesting can be done given a bit of effort.I also had a 56 plate Vauxhall 5dr van thing (combo?) as a company van two years ago, it was the 1.7 DTi and bloody hell it was quick, but it disspointed me in the fact that a huge anount of the detail, switchgear etc, was lifted from as far back as the Cavalier. I know "dont fix it if it isn't broke" but come on, a bit of effort please!The Transit minibus I had before the Combothing was probably the only Ford I have liked, despite at 6 months old it was starting to fall apart, rubber seals dropping off etc. For honest no frills motoring I guess that a Vauxhall or Ford fits the bill, but for the price you pay, especially by the time in a cars life that i'm looking at buying one, there are dynamically better cars about. I guess that i just expect that little bit extra from my car than just transportation.

I use that argument FOR Vauxhalls. There's no way in this world any fleet manager would buy cars just on discount (and trust me other makers would have offered similarly priced cars): they go on cost (of course) plus running costs, reliability and future values. These things the Cavalier especially excelled at hence it winning fleet car of the year six years on the bounce closely followed by the Vectra.Now, my gripe with VAG stuff is this alleged conception that they are well built, reliable and sort of 'above all else'. Honestly I've had a few over the years and they were really nothing to write home about, far from it. I've yet to own one that was as reliable or pleasant to own as a Vauxhall and I'm not kidding. A very good mate of mine is a massive Golf fanataic and spends fortunes on his, always telling me how great they are (yet spending far more time getting fixed than any Vauxhall I've ever had). The Mk1 and 2 Golfs are (in my humble personal opinion) a bland, nasty and not even fast (in GTi form) place to be. No doubt they could out handle a Cavalier or Mk2 Astra but really nothing special at all.Being honest one of the reasons I lotahe VWs is that so many owners (I don't count you in this I should add) are bl**dy snobs. They sneer at Vauxhalls and Fords etc and when they tell you what car they have it's almost as if you should fall at their feet.I like the 'familiarity' of Vauxhalls, the way I can jump in virtually any one of them and know where everything is, know it's not going to break and know I could drive half way round the world in one without worry if I had to.They're also coming on in leaps and bounds in the last 15 years or more. The Cav Mk3 was an utterly fantastic car for what it was for example, so reliable and easy to drive and the better spec'd models were ace fun too.More recently (sorry for mentioning moderns) the Mk4 Astra is another brilliant car. Extremely well built, very reliable, pleasant (yes, pleasant!) to drive and everything the average person could want out of car without having to spend more money buying, insuring, running and repairing supposedly fancier cars. I honestly cannot accept that there is, or was, a like-for-like VW that was ever worth buying over the equivelant Vauxhall.

[MrRegieRitmo]

I think that the reason that Vauxhalls sold so well, especially Astrays Chavaliers and Vectras, was due to the huge share in the fleet market they held in the 80's/90's. This is not necessarily that they were better cars, or more reliable. It's due to the fact that fleets are bought by, in general, an accountant who looks at the discount they can get from the manufacturer and the delivery lead time. I would never buy a Vauxhall product, only through personal choice, despite one of my mates having a Corsa Auto that has given him fine service for the last few years. Why would i not? I just find that they fall dynamically short of other manufacturers, they seem sparsley equipped, utilising quite old tecnology, and under developed. I mean have you actually looked at the driving position you had to use in a Nova? The steering wheel is completey offset causing you to twist into a weird semi reclined position to avoid backache.I was given a use of company cars from a pool fleet years back. The choices were on any given day - Ford Sierra 1.8 GLXi, Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0 GLi, Nissan Primera 2.0 SGX and a Volvo 440 2.0i I would always choose the Primera followed by the Volvo, due to the fact that they were more comfortable, better equipped and just seemed better thought out. The Sierra was awful in crosswinds, and well the Cavalier was just dull. The example we had lasted well, never really broke down, apart from the fact that it seemed to start to rot before the others. I think my point here is that although they are competant cars they just hold no interest. I have had a GM Saab 9-3 recently, which for all intents, is a Cavalier in Ikea gear, and to be honest i do miss it (despite its insessant bings and bongs) But it shows that something far more interesting can be done given a bit of effort.I also had a 56 plate Vauxhall 5dr van thing (combo?) as a company van two years ago, it was the 1.7 DTi and bloody hell it was quick, but it disspointed me in the fact that a huge anount of the detail, switchgear etc, was lifted from as far back as the Cavalier. I know "dont fix it if it isn't broke" but come on, a bit of effort please!The Transit minibus I had before the Combothing was probably the only Ford I have liked, despite at 6 months old it was starting to fall apart, rubber seals dropping off etc. For honest no frills motoring I guess that a Vauxhall or Ford fits the bill, but for the price you pay, especially by the time in a cars life that i'm looking at buying one, there are dynamically better cars about. I guess that i just expect that little bit extra from my car than just transportation.

I should get you to have a word with my other half. Her car history reads.....Nova -----> Astra MkIII -----> Astra MkIV (variety is the spice of life I say, Ok I've had predominantly Italian, but these are cars I wanted to own & experience, I'm sure I'll get around to other things, I've only had 5 cars.....Panda -----> Ritmo ------> Fiesta MkIII ------> Renault 14 ------> Alfa 146 & my g/f has been driving nearly twice as long as me!)

[MrRegieRitmo]

I have just realised that despite owning 100's of cars over the years I have never owned a Vauxhall and quite frankly I feel that this must be redressed!

I have nothing against Vauxhalls, I just tend to find them not overly exciting. However, if you want to experience a Vauxhall, these are the few that float me boat....

 

MkI Cavalier, MkI Carlton, Viva HC Sportshatch, Viva HC Droopsnoot, Firenza (either with the HC or Magnum front end), MkI Astra GTE, Lotus Carlton. All based on looks alone, apart from the Lotus Carlton, which is based on everything!

[MrRegieRitmo]

Now, my gripe with VAG stuff is this alleged conception that they are well built, reliable and sort of 'above all else'. Honestly I've had a few over the years and they were really nothing to write home about, far from it. I've yet to own one that was as reliable or pleasant to own as a Vauxhall and I'm not kidding. A very good mate of mine is a massive Golf fanataic and spends fortunes on his, always telling me how great they are (yet spending far more time getting fixed than any Vauxhall I've ever had). The Mk1 and 2 Golfs are (in my humble personal opinion) a bland, nasty and not even fast (in GTi form) place to be. No doubt they could out handle a Cavalier or Mk2 Astra but really nothing special at all.Being honest one of the reasons I lotahe VWs is that so many owners (I don't count you in this I should add) are bl**dy snobs. They sneer at Vauxhalls and Fords etc and when they tell you what car they have it's almost as if you should fall at their feet.I honestly cannot accept that there is, or was, a like-for-like VW that was ever worth buying over the equivelant Vauxhall.

It's funny, my other half has always had Vauxhalls, but she always raves about German cars & drools over the latest Audi, whichever it might be. Probably down to the fact her parents both have A4s. So their driveway is something of consternation for you with a MkIV Astra rubbing shoulders with 2 Audis. But then, like you say, her parents, well her dad, doesn't look on her Astra particularly favourably & often isn't very complimentary about it!

[pogweasel]

More recently (sorry for mentioning moderns) the Mk4 Astra is another brilliant car. Extremely well built, very reliable, pleasant (yes, pleasant!) to drive and everything the average person could want out of car without having to spend more money buying, insuring, running and repairing supposedly fancier cars.

You can keep preachin' Reverand, but the world ain't listenin'. :lol: :lol:I guess your Mk4 must have been special order for the chairman of the board. Because EVERY SINGLE ONE I have ever driven has been disappointing. Quality? Pah. All seem like they've been nailed together by blind drunkards during a power cut. I mean you might glue the frickin' badges on straight. I have had to drill a load of self-tappers into the dash on mine to stop it shaking & creaking. Running & repair costs? You'll not be saying that when you need a wheel bearing (can't have just the bearing, gotta be the whole assembly), most unreliable vehicles I have ever encountered. Then add in the dire driving experience, dangerous e-pas/handling, harsh ride and least comfortable driving position this side of a 1948 Ferguson Tractor.... need I go on? Never, ever EVER will I touch another, with any length of bargepole. If you still think they are the best thing, evAr, come round, have a poot in our Focus. A million miles better than an Astra (and a megane, civic and golf by that measure) and still perfectly screwed together even with 200,000 miles looming. (Don't get me wrong, I've had some cracking Vauxhalls in the past, 2xMk2 wagons, and 2 8v Mk3 hatches which were good, just they lost the plot, big style in the late 90's!)

[r.welfare]

I must admit the 1.6 Mk4 Ashtray I had as a garage loaner (53 plate) didn't impress me as much as a Focus - couldn't get comfortable, rear window very shallow so hard to see out, good engine though (as usual for a Vx!).I s'pose in this day and age of 100,000 mile spark plug changes, problems with the Kak make perfect sense.

[andrew e]

The flat seats in them (ashtray IV) are uncomfortable.

[Cavcraft]

More recently (sorry for mentioning moderns) the Mk4 Astra is another brilliant car. Extremely well built, very reliable, pleasant (yes, pleasant!) to drive and everything the average person could want out of car without having to spend more money buying, insuring, running and repairing supposedly fancier cars.

You can keep preachin' Reverand, but the world ain't listenin'. :lol: :lol:I guess your Mk4 must have been special order for the chairman of the board. Because EVERY SINGLE ONE I have ever driven has been disappointing. Quality? Pah. All seem like they've been nailed together by blind drunkards during a power cut. I mean you might glue the frickin' badges on straight. I have had to drill a load of self-tappers into the dash on mine to stop it shaking & creaking. Running & repair costs? You'll not be saying that when you need a wheel bearing (can't have just the bearing, gotta be the whole assembly), most unreliable vehicles I have ever encountered. Then add in the dire driving experience, dangerous e-pas/handling, harsh ride and least comfortable driving position this side of a 1948 Ferguson Tractor.... need I go on? Never, ever EVER will I touch another, with any length of bargepole. If you still think they are the best thing, evAr, come round, have a poot in our Focus. A million miles better than an Astra (and a megane, civic and golf by that measure) and still perfectly screwed together even with 200,000 miles looming. (Don't get me wrong, I've had some cracking Vauxhalls in the past, 2xMk2 wagons, and 2 8v Mk3 hatches which were good, just they lost the plot, big style in the late 90's!)

The Church of the Latter Day Vauxhallist resumes services about now. Please be seated in the nearest pew whilst we change the fuel pump on your Vectra 2.0DTi at a thousand quid a throw...Don't say the Focus is a bad car, they just don't float my boat. I've been in (and driven) a few but just not my thing. Can't agree with your Ashtray Mk4 comments though. Ok, mine's only done 85,000-ish but last owner was a boy racer and I treat cars quite heavily myself with the kids doing their best to help Parts are cheap, it's very bloody well made and nice to drive. Driving position, equipment, handling, seats (yes, I did say seats) and room are ace. I won't try and say Vauxhalls are 'exciting' but then again how may comparable cars are? I just find them reliable and pleasant to own.Hell, some of them are even fun and pretty fast: Nova GTE, Cavalier SRi 2.0 8V, Cav Gsi, Nova and Corsa 1.5TD, Calibra red top, to name but a few.Anyhow stop picking on me yer barstarrrds

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

To me, running shite is about running an offbeat and semi - interesting old car that's worth less than a good pair of shoes as opposed to something that is just old. The Ford Probe - actually a remarkably good driving car with an image issue is prime shite. Pug 605's, Alfa 155/164, Scab 9000 are more shite that costs nothing to buy, drive well and don't cost a lot to run. A Lancia Thema is another worthless shed that could be a laugh.These days you can buy an early to mid nineties 3 Series for £500 and enjoy about the cheapest car parts going thanks to GSF/ECP. A four pot 318i does 35 mph, handles and steers very well, is reasonably rot resistant and very easy to work on. A head gasket is a day's work tops.The only GM car I would countenance is a post '88 Senator. I had a Nova SR years ago and enjoyed it, drove a Corsa and though it was appalling. The Ka is a bit of a rot box but cars that cost £6000 new aren't supposed to last 10 years. If you avoid Ford dealers like the plague (because Ford parts prices are absolutely obscene), a Ka is a cheap and simple car to maintain. The plugs must removed and replaced every 6 months.I'm not a great VW fan. They traded for a long time on the qualityb image and I've seen a lot of rotten Mark 3 Golfs.

[Volksy]

I use that argument FOR Vauxhalls. There's no way in this world any fleet manager would buy cars just on discount (and trust me other makers would have offered similarly priced cars): they go on cost (of course) plus running costs, reliability and future values. These things the Cavalier especially excelled at hence it winning fleet car of the year six years on the bounce closely followed by the Vectra.Now, my gripe with VAG stuff is this alleged conception that they are well built, reliable and sort of 'above all else'. Honestly I've had a few over the years and they were really nothing to write home about, far from it. I've yet to own one that was as reliable or pleasant to own as a Vauxhall and I'm not kidding. A very good mate of mine is a massive Golf fanataic and spends fortunes on his, always telling me how great they are (yet spending far more time getting fixed than any Vauxhall I've ever had). The Mk1 and 2 Golfs are (in my humble personal opinion) a bland, nasty and not even fast (in GTi form) place to be. No doubt they could out handle a Cavalier or Mk2 Astra but really nothing special at all.Being honest one of the reasons I lotahe VWs is that so many owners (I don't count you in this I should add) are bl**dy snobs. They sneer at Vauxhalls and Fords etc and when they tell you what car they have it's almost as if you should fall at their feet.I like the 'familiarity' of Vauxhalls, the way I can jump in virtually any one of them and know where everything is, know it's not going to break and know I could drive half way round the world in one without worry if I had to.They're also coming on in leaps and bounds in the last 15 years or more. The Cav Mk3 was an utterly fantastic car for what it was for example, so reliable and easy to drive and the better spec'd models were ace fun too.More recently (sorry for mentioning moderns) the Mk4 Astra is another brilliant car. Extremely well built, very reliable, pleasant (yes, pleasant!) to drive and everything the average person could want out of car without having to spend more money buying, insuring, running and repairing supposedly fancier cars. I honestly cannot accept that there is, or was, a like-for-like VW that was ever worth buying over the equivelant Vauxhall.

I do not despute VW's poor quality control certainly on the MK3 Golf, however they do, as someone else said cost nowt to run these days, but they do rot pretty badly, in some very odd places, the polo is the same..I presume that you thought I was some sort of pro-VW type from my username, granted I have owned lots, but stopped when they started to attract scenetax and idiots. I've been a divout Saab/Volvo man for about 10 years, with an odd flurry with something else, I buy what takes my fancy and suits my pocket at the time, whatever it may be, for the money I spend on a car which is normally no more than £250 it doesnt matter if it breaks down and gets scrapped in a month, as i will have either enjoyed it or hated it. I had a 16v Bubble Micra that i hated with a vengence... would it die. No, it went on and on and on. till it got written off.. thankfully!

[Cavcraft]

Cool. I'm certainly not going to fall out with anyone over this. I've already realised you all know Vauxhall made the greatest cars ever and you're just winding me up Just sold a bubble Micra which was kind of hateful but loveable at the same time. 50mpg without trying was a real winner and despite a fair few miles (130,000 odd I think) it ran like a Swiss watch. It'd be almost impossible to have felt any passion for it though.Rev: I didn't know Ford prices were obscene by the way. I've not bought any parts from them (Ford) in light years and the last time I did my mate worked in parts so they were cheap anyhow.Beemers are another thing I've never really got into. Had a couple of E30(?) shaped ones a while back and the best was the 180,000 miler which went like the clappers. A recent E36 I had was incredibly uninspiring but to be fair could just have been a duff one and I might be buying another (1997/8) one very soon as the price should be stupidly cheap.As regards Alfas I'm currently still trying to fight the urge to buy a 156, probably a two litre. They're just so sexy it'd almost be a crime not to buy one but I'm shit scared of reputation and running costs plus resales.

[Split_Pin]

I dont have as much car owning experience as other members however I can say that my ex's KA was prematurely rusty, had troublesome steering but was an excellent drive, with light, direct steering and sure-footed handling. Def agree with Pog on the shoe thing though The Corsa B I owned at the same time was very reliable, looked good (IMO), but was rusting in some hidden places such as behind the fuel filler neck on the inner wing, and only handled well when I fitted uprated dampers. The suspension design at the front looked dated. The engine was willing for a 1.4 8v.The MK4 Astra Coupe I run now looks good (IMO), is very reliable and comfortable, not too shabby on fuel and I personally have no issues with the petrol Ecotec engine. I find it quite a simple car to work on (well, for modern stuff anyway). However the dash does creak like buggery lol!I STILL want an FSO though

[Volksy]

Def agree with Pog on the shoe thing though

i think tea pot, minus handle and spout....

[outlaw118]

The only Ka I've ever driven was a hire car when I pranged my van, and as we all know, it's against the law to drive "nicely" in one of those. It did handle well, and Madam, who had a Clio at the time quite liked it too. Our local dealer will flog you a brand new one for about 6 bags, so reasonable value. Wouldn't have one; the're just too small for a fat bastard like me.Vauxhalls; I'm on my third Astray, had a Mk1 in that Terracotta colur (1300LS with a Nover 1.4SR lump in, silly cam etc he he he...), paintwork horrible, back arches crusty, seats hard, handled lovely, never broke down. Had that for 2 years, only ever bought tyres. Then Mark 2 1300 Merit Estate, mexico red. Hated it, but don't really know why. Was a really useful old bus, just never really "bonded" with it. Unable to kill it though, and was eventually stolen by some chav in Romford. Now got a N plate 16V 1.8 Sport Estate, purchased 14/12/02 and I absolutely love it. It's now officially shite, the back arches are dropping out, and theres numerous little dents, and the bonnets the wrong colour (TOP TIP: Don't hit Skoda Fellatios up the arse). It's comfortable, handles well, goes like stink, and doesn't drink like a thirsty Oliver Reed. The fact I've had her so long amazes me, but I don't want to get rid, although madam is making noises!!! (hence my post about Volvo V40's the other day!)

[MrRegieRitmo]

 

More recently (sorry for mentioning moderns) the Mk4 Astra is another brilliant car. Extremely well built, very reliable, pleasant (yes, pleasant!) to drive and everything the average person could want out of car without having to spend more money buying, insuring, running and repairing supposedly fancier cars.

 

You can keep preachin' Reverand, but the world ain't listenin'. :lol:

 

I guess your Mk4 must have been special order for the chairman of the board. Because EVERY SINGLE ONE I have ever driven has been disappointing. Quality? Pah. All seem like they've been nailed together by blind drunkards during a power cut. I mean you might glue the frickin' badges on straight. I have had to drill a load of self-tappers into the dash on mine to stop it shaking & creaking. Running & repair costs? You'll not be saying that when you need a wheel bearing (can't have just the bearing, gotta be the whole assembly), most unreliable vehicles I have ever encountered. Then add in the dire driving experience, dangerous e-pas/handling, harsh ride and least comfortable driving position this side of a 1948 Ferguson Tractor.... need I go on? Never, ever EVER will I touch another, with any length of bargepole.

If you still think they are the best thing, evAr, come round, have a poot in our Focus. A million miles better than an Astra (and a megane, civic and golf by that measure) and still perfectly screwed together even with 200,000 miles looming.

 

 

(Don't get me wrong, I've had some cracking Vauxhalls in the past, 2xMk2 wagons, and 2 8v Mk3 hatches which were good, just they lost the plot, big style in the late 90's!)

Madam's MkIV hasn't been exactly trouble free, in the 2 1/2 years we've been together it's needed a new alternator, the compressor failed meaning no air con unless she shells out over £500 for part plus labour. Funnily enough she's managing to make do! Sure there have been other things too but can't remember. Something to do with her steering - or that might have been connected to the power issue. Bloody dangerous how the power steering suddenly dies when there are problems with the alternator or whatever as you suddenly go from really light to really heavy without any warning.

 

On the positive side it does feel very solidly built, the doors for instance are very firm & heavy & close with a reassuring clonk, like on my colleague's V40, dad's 407 etc. My Alfa's doors sound quite tinny when closing & feel much lighter. Hopefully something that may be better on the newer 147!

 

she hates it when I moan about it being common & dull in a dull colour (but it's Polar Sea Blue! )

[MrRegieRitmo]

Def agree with Pog on the shoe thing though

i think tea pot, minus handle and spout....

Sorry, I'm probably being obtuse, but that one's gone over my head!?

[Volksy]

I think the Ka resembles a tea pot

[MrRegieRitmo]

Ahhhh IC!In our family we call them pencil sharpeners!

[Rocket88]

Best allround car I've ever owned [out of, at the last count 278] Mk2 Senator 24valve. Second best,Carlton gsi. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned. Would have another of either tomorrow if I could find a nice one over here [or a Monza]

[Cavcraft]

Hey Regie, ever driven a BX when it dumps it's LHM? Now THAT is entertaining: steering usually goes first followed by brakes and suspension, and trust me when the steering tightens it's a Mr Universe job to steer round your average bit of gravel.

[r.welfare]

Strange fact - 24v 3-litre Senators and Carltons are actually more economical when mated to the 4spd auto than the 5pd manual Agreed though, great motors, shame about the rust.

[pompei]

I once had a hydrolastic mini break its rear subframe on me whilst driving, which was in interesting experience ...

[Rocket88]

Strange fact - 24v 3-litre Senators and Carltons are actually more economical when mated to the 4spd auto than the 5pd manual

 

Totally agree, that's exactly what I found. Senator auto was better on juice at 85 mph than it was at 65 mph. Someting do with gearing and torque [someone who knows about such things tried to explain it to me, but I think I started to glaze over after about 8 seconds]

If anyone out there has either of the above, I'd be interested in buying.....

[Cavcraft]

If you're REALLY quick a lad on VXON ( http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/ ) was trying to sell a Carlton GSi very cheap (£300 iirc) but as he was getting no interest he decided to offer breaking it for spares. He may still have it complete, try the classifieds bit of that forum and have a look. I don't know him as such incidentally but the price seemed good for a cool barge like that.

[mk2_craig]

Bloody dangerous how the power steering suddenly dies when there are problems with the alternator or whatever as you suddenly go from really light to really heavy without any warning.

Sounds like low fluid causing the steering to tense up at low revs. I just about wrenched my arm out of its socket with a Leyland Olympian doing that to me on a slow (<5mph) left hand 90deg turn.

[Ross_K]

Hey Regie, ever driven a BX when it dumps it's LHM? Now THAT is entertaining: steering usually goes first followed by brakes and suspension, and trust me when the steering tightens it's a Mr Universe job to steer round your average bit of gravel.

I wondered how long it would take before the Citroen-bashing started. ;)Bash on though, I'm not all uptight and defensive about my choice of ride. Incidentally, I did have a BX about twelve years ago which shat it's LHM all over the outside lane of the M6 at about 85mph. Not fun.

[Cavcraft]

FAIL!I do believe that JonkW and father Ted will confirm my non-Citroen bashing status.I've had countless BXs and wasn't that long since I had to break my own heart and flog my 1.9TD converted TZD estate, that was a proper fun car.I'm still in touch with the BX gang and will get another one one day though next time I'll be going back to my roots and getting a 1.7 n/a diesel. Slower than a slow thing on national slow day but found them more reliable than any other model as less to go wrong. I've also asked the lad who bought my TD estate to give me first refusal if he sells it on. Now the Xantia, that's a different keetle of mackerel and no mistaking

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I H8 CITROENS N VAXHOLEZ

[pogweasel]

He he!Old Cits, the proper ones with stone-age diesels and uppy downy suspension are GR8.Not sure about the more conventional offerings. I had a Berlingo van for a bit. It had a 2.0HDi engine so was pretty dang rapid, plus it was a good size inside (GR8 4 DOGGIN). What was not to joyous was it's propensity to PHAIL at inopportune moments, just for a larf, like when all the electrics cut out whilst I was changing lanes on the Euston Road, thus causing a massive traffic jam as we pushed it to the kerb. Wouldn't have minded so much, but Citroen dealer mechanics are clearly schooled in the typical French way of getting things fixed: I.E. sitting about smoking fags, drinking drinks and generally doing nothing. After about 6 attempts at this (with the cheeky bleeders charging me £94 each time for a 'courtesy' vehicle) I gave up.