Average working life of a car?

[Adrian_pt]

In Cambridge there's a fair amount of really old stuff bashing about' lots going back to F or G, definitely. Also, I see lots of eccentric old dons driving around ancient, very posh stuff, like the T-reg S-class parked outside Trinity, lots of early 80s Beemers, and an absolutely lovely bearded-driven Datsun in yellow. It must also be old Saab capital of the country. That said round Liverpool way you'd be hard pushed to see anything below about P or R... while in the really grand residential bits of Central London I saw heaps of outrageous shite in gloriously tatty condition. Bit of a weird correlation...

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I really have a problem with old Vectras, and have done since I rented them when new. I bought one once for peanuts and it was a disaster. However I've rented a couple of the recent shape Veccy and they're not bad.Anybody that buys new shite and takes such a massive hit without the recourse to claim it back somehow needs a talking to.

[Cavcraft]

*Ponders being drawn into a debate over Vectras. Decides against it*Genuinely interested in seeing comments (here and elsewhere) about the Astra being uncomfortable. I have back problems and I'm a fat lanky git but honestly find my Mk4 hatchback ace on long and short journeys. It could possibly be that some models had cheaper/nastier/less comfortable seats I suppose but ho hum, each to their own.Back o/t (sorry) I'd bet the life expectancy of most new cars now to be about ten or twelve years at most. Have things got better since the early nineties? On the evidence of such truly horrible offerings such as the Mk2 Mondeo (amonsgt many other cars) I sometimes wonder if they have. Most cars now seem to be compiled of bits made down to a price not up to a quality in my humble opinion.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I've never had an issue with the Astra mark 4. A bit bland but a perfectly good car with no real issues and a huge leap forward over the ghastly Mark 3 - didn't Lotus develop the chassis on the Mk4? I liked the vans in particular. No discomfort issues for me, I thought they were okay. The Focus was a better car but not by a big margin. There was no excuse for the early Vectra to be as bad as it was. the Cavalier was actually a better car and it's not often a big manufacturer makes a car worse than the one before.Mind you - Mark 3 Golf. Now they really were garbage.

[pogweasel]

Genuinely interested in seeing comments (here and elsewhere) about the Astra being uncomfortable. I have back problems and I'm a fat lanky git but honestly find my Mk4 hatchback ace on long and short journeys. It could possibly be that some models had cheaper/nastier/less comfortable seats I suppose but ho hum, each to their own.

Not a model-specific thing IMO. The 'elegance' spec I bought for Er Indoors was just as uncomfortable as my 'envoy' van. Maybe being fat and lanky is best for these. Being fairly short-arsed and not particularly hefty either I maybe don't fit their mould. One of the main caused of discomfort is that the door window sill is too high to rest one's arm on, and the 'arm rest' on the door is too low. Add to this that the seats have NO lateral support (which given that they handle like a greasy pig on a tarpaulin is a bad thing) and it adds up. The seat back seems to be an odd shape too.

[Mr Lobster]

Genuinely interested in seeing comments (here and elsewhere) about the Astra being uncomfortable. I have back problems and I'm a fat lanky git but honestly find my Mk4 hatchback ace on long and short journeys.

We have loads of new Astra SXi's and vans at work and a fair number of people do complain they are uncomfortable. I'd agree with Pog about the armrest / window height issue. I find I get lower back pain after more than an hour driving one though which is a pity as they don't seem too bad otherwise.

[r.welfare]

Most cars now seem to be compiled of bits made down to a price not up to a quality in my humble opinion.

Bingo! Even the prestige Germans are not immune now. M-B went the cost-cutting route to the detriment of that hard-won reputation some years ago, got their fingers burnt, and are supposedly improving again. What was the last truly cost-no-object-engineered Benz anyway? The 190, W124, W140 S-Class (the huuuuuuge early 90s one), or the first C-Class?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

To be on the safe side, the W123. The 124 had a lot of problems in its early life and they do like to rot as well, and the later ones are worse still. I've seen M and N reg ones with rotten front wings whereas you wouldn't find a 1995 Laguna in that state.The 190 wasn't a bad car - probabaly the last of the proper ones. All this talk of MB improving is bullshit. They're as bad now as they ever were.

[r.welfare]

W123 is a beautiful motor for sure - and still within shite prices. I saw a French-registered 200D in Reading earlier in the week - which must be one of the slowest ways to travel. Bet you'd always get to your destination though.I do love the complete overkill of the W140 - but the sensible shite-budget punter would do better to get into a Lexus LS400, methinks.I like the look of the W124, particularly the early ones, with the big plain wheeltrims unadorned by other crap - and you can still find a few with their original owners.You're absolutely correct that the last of the German-built ones (L-N plate) rusted worse round the front wings. Funnily enough, the roughest ones I see are those registered after the bugeyed job came out (sometimes even on an R plate) - always an E220. Apparently these were a random batch that came out of M-B's Indian factory, and got dumped on Trade Sales of Slough.My wife ran a Mk3 Golf for 10 years. Put 142k on it, not bad for a boggo L-reg 1.4 with untouched engine, box, clutch, suspension and all the exhaust apart from the tailpipe (which fell off, one winter's day). Got a bit crumbly round the edges (bottom of side and rear windows mainly), and not wonderful to drive (slow, no feedback from the steering, marshmallow suspension) - but reliable. Again, must have been a "good" one. She still laments her Mk2 GTI Campaign that was TWOC'd and burnt out more, which probably confirms your comments.

[mk2_craig]

Have things got better since the early nineties? On the evidence of such truly horrible offerings such as the Mk2 Mondeo (amonsgt many other cars) I sometimes wonder if they have.

As the owner of one of these I must leap to its defence, although it has plenty of built-in planned obsolescence (difficulty of changing clutch, egg-shell thin bumpers, front lower arms practically a service item in typical 1990s Ford fashion) it's been the least-serviced, most reliable and therefore best car I've ever owned. Although admittedly the vast majority of the others have been mk2 Fiestas Therefore, I hate my Mondeo with a passion and need to sell it as soon as poss

[carlo]

There was no excuse for the early Vectra to be as bad as it was. the Cavalier was actually a better car and it's not often a big manufacturer makes a car worse than the one before.

Peugeot managed it with virtually every model after 1998.

[Cavcraft]

Have things got better since the early nineties? On the evidence of such truly horrible offerings such as the Mk2 Mondeo (amonsgt many other cars) I sometimes wonder if they have.

As the owner of one of these I must leap to its defence, although it has plenty of built-in planned obsolescence (difficulty of changing clutch, egg-shell thin bumpers, front lower arms practically a service item in typical 1990s Ford fashion) it's been the least-serviced, most reliable and therefore best car I've ever owned. Although admittedly the vast majority of the others have been mk2 Fiestas Therefore, I hate my Mondeo with a passion and need to sell it as soon as poss

I've had a few, and some quite recently too, but must confess to preferring the Vectra. I'm not going to win many new friends or be taken too seriously by stating that I'm sure, it's just my last Mongdeo was just a horrible car. I've had a few Mk1s that were very capable and easy/pleasant/reliable to drive but the last Mk2 honestly made walking with drawing pins in a pair of hobnailed boots three sizes to small seem like a better option.I'm honestly not trying to slag your car off or start and argument, just proving we are all different I suppose.As regards the Mk4 Astra I find the seats in mine (a 1.6 Sport which I think has the same seats as an SRi) to be supportive and (probably because I'm fat!) hold me perfectly even when giving it large on roundabouts and corners etc, hence me wondering if different models had better seats.Merc build quality? Hmm, seem to fade out around 1994-ish on. My 190E has done 163,000 and aside from one front wing with some rot on it is very, very well screwed together. However I've seen other 190s the same age or slightly older which have horrendous bodywork, including a fells from work's 190D (2.0 for the ultimate slow!).Merc parts are fantastic: there's a rumour (some people say it's true, others say not) that they will supply parts for any vehicle they ever made. If not in stock they will have them made apparantly. As I say a little tenuous but the dealer told me that and I've never wanted for anything. Classic example called the main commercial dealer for some bits for my 1987 609D. Ignition and key plus door handle, lock and key. All in stock and all incredibly cheap. I think the whole lot came to under £46.00 including VAT.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Wor lass has an X reg astra 1.6, i find it to be a great car in all respects, except for the seats which give me a numb arse after about an hour causing me to shuffle about and complain loudly, asking if we are there yet every 4 minutes.

[vicsmith]

I think this seat issue applies to new cars in general, it wasn`t until I travelled in Hirst`s Galant that I realised I hadn`t known a comfy car seat in ages, with all my old stuff being out of use since at least December up until then, I`d been on a diet of X-reg onwards Vectras, Mondeos, Fiestas, Astras etc. and didn`t realise just how hard and unforgiving all of them were until I sank into the luxuriant splendour of the Beige Galant. To answer the initial question, I would say 12 years is a bit of a watershed for car life expectancy, most traders would feel a bit queasy scrapping an R-reg car but a tatty N-reg feels more like it has done it`s work.

[mk2_craig]

I hate my Mondeo with a passion and need to sell it as soon as poss

I'm honestly not trying to slag your car off or start and argument, just proving we are all different I suppose.

You can slag my car off all you like, I used to love it when people slagged off my old Mk3 Escort, occasionally someone would say they genuinely liked it and I'd be thinking "it's a pile of shite man, what are you talking about".Largely as a result of this forum, I'd now much rather own a 652cc Visa or Mk1 Seat Ibiza than a 1999 Mondeo

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

There was no excuse for the early Vectra to be as bad as it was. the Cavalier was actually a better car and it's not often a big manufacturer makes a car worse than the one before.

Peugeot managed it with virtually every model after 1998.

I know - why is that? Peugeots used be so pretty (204, 304 and the 504 Coupe) plus they were about the toughest thing on the road after a Merc W114.The 205 was okay as was the 309 and 405 plus my fave, the lush 605. The first really crap car they built was the 106, based on an AX apparently. Really shoddy when you look into them. They just seem to get bigger and uglier with the 308 being a real pig in knickers. PSA seem to be the masters of making cheap rubbish to sell on cheap finance. Well, good luck to them.

[carlo]

There was no excuse for the early Vectra to be as bad as it was. the Cavalier was actually a better car and it's not often a big manufacturer makes a car worse than the one before.

Peugeot managed it with virtually every model after 1998.

I know - why is that? Peugeots used be so pretty (204, 304 and the 504 Coupe) plus they were about the toughest thing on the road after a Merc W114.The 205 was okay as was the 309 and 405 plus my fave, the lush 605. The first really crap car they built was the 106, based on an AX apparently. Really shoddy when you look into them. They just seem to get bigger and uglier with the 308 being a real pig in knickers. PSA seem to be the masters of making cheap rubbish to sell on cheap finance. Well, good luck to them.

They followed Ford's logic of the eighties and went for marketing over engineering, must have become too complacent over all the magazines praising their products. Hence the 206, a perfect example of style over substance if ever there was one.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Indeed. The 205 was probably the perfect small car.

[Cavcraft]

I hate my Mondeo with a passion and need to sell it as soon as poss

I'm honestly not trying to slag your car off or start and argument, just proving we are all different I suppose.

You can slag my car off all you like, I used to love it when people slagged off my old Mk3 Escort, occasionally someone would say they genuinely liked it and I'd be thinking "it's a pile of shite man, what are you talking about".Largely as a result of this forum, I'd now much rather own a 652cc Visa or Mk1 Seat Ibiza than a 1999 Mondeo

See, that's the kind of attitude I aspire to. Knowing a car is shite is half the fun of owning one for me. I expect the majority of people who don't get it are the same twonks who buy either a brand new car and lose a fortune on it three years later when they sell it. Or the sort who say 'I'd never buy a car from the auction, they're all shite' then proceed to tear arse down to Car Crap and buy an ex-auction car for eleventy times it's value because it's been nicely hoovered and sold by some cheap suited air head salesman. Who mentioned the 206? I'm 'fortunate' enough to have to drive them at work occasionally. I must write to Peugeot sometime and commend them on making the gap between accelerator and brake pedal so small you can just about neatly fit a filed down fag paper between them. Oh, and the lovely vomit inducing green interiors, what a lovely touch.

[andrew e]

I like the green upholstery!

[Mash]

Very interesting thread.I've plugged in loads of reg numbers of 70s cars to the DVLA website from TV programmes an dmagazines and a large proportion didn't make their 10th birthday it seems. Back then of course it was probably down to poorer build than mechanical failure.I agree that the 12-14 year life of cars now is, as many people have pointed out, down to parts prices and failure of electrical gubbings and so on which is quite the reverse. Cars go to scrap with good bodywork and shot mechanics now, whereas it was vice versa in days gone by.I drive moderns every now and again for work and whilst they are great for blasting down the motorway with no effort at 80 plus, I always find myself coming home and being relieved to get back into my C-reg Sunny. I actually find current cars less pleasant and less comfortable to drive somehow. I don't know what it is, maybe I'm just so used to older stuff. I have to admit to getting a bit of a kick out of piloting a 25-year old car on a daily basis and that feeling of being different but it also makes much more sense if you can keep on top of the repairs of course.Cars are white goods and have become disposable and people become bored easily. Kids don't get excited at seeing the new reg plates each year on 1st August like I used to, usually coniciding with our annual summer holiday journey.Then there's snobbery. If offered a mint N-reg car with miniscule mileage for next to nothing, most people would turn their noses up I reckon.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I remember coming back from France on August 2nd 1978 and seeing not only the new Chrysler Horizon (before launch I think) but on the new T plate.A magical childhood moment for sure.

[mk2_craig]

Crikey, three days before I was born I well remember the changeover from C to D reg though, I think the first D I saw on the road was a Polo saloon.

[r.welfare]

Cars go to scrap with good bodywork and shot mechanics now, whereas it was vice versa in days gone by.

Indeed - but I think this demise is hastened by boneheaded ownership in the latter stages of a car's life. There's very few cars out there now (80's Japanese stuff excepted) that can survive - and even thrive - on a lack of servicing or even regular oil changes.Case in point is that DVLA lookup site again - pretty all the old motors I've had since 1996 are no longer taxed, assumed scrapped. And these were all motors that were mechanically A1 when sold on...

[garethj]

Then there's snobbery. If offered a mint N-reg car with miniscule mileage for next to nothing, most people would turn their noses up I reckon.

Sad but true.

 

Mined ewe, 1974 is quite old

[AnthonyG]

I'm not going to win many new friends or be taken too seriously by stating that I'm sure, it's just my last Mongdeo was just a horrible car. I've had a few Mk1s that were very capable and easy/pleasant/reliable to drive but the last Mk2 honestly made walking with drawing pins in a pair of hobnailed boots three sizes to small seem like a better option.I'm honestly not trying to slag your car off or start and argument, just proving we are all different I suppose.

There was very little difference between the 'Mk1' 1993-96 and 'Mk2' Mondeos, just a bit of suspension work and new body panels. Do you mean the 2001 -2007 Mondeo? - (most Ford people class this as the MK3) - its the only Mondeo I haven't had experience of.I would say that the 1993-2000 Mondeo is one of the best cars in the banger category, having owned one when they were new and one as a cheap heap now. Just make sure the clutch has been done or dosen't need doing!

[retrogeezer]

I well remember the changeover from C to D reg though, I think the first D I saw on the road was a Polo saloon.

Used to be a great thrill, seeing a newly registered car on the 1st August!With regard to Mondeos, I think the one I have is fantastic (for a mondeo) really nice to drive, very smooth and very quiet...in fact, one bloke walked into the side of it once as he didn't hear (or see!) me coming along the road!I'm pretty lucky as it's a one owner (friend) car from new and a ghia with a/c. It is one of the 1st of the Mk2's as well and there is no bad rust anywhere. in fact, it was like new until the twat with the trailer tried to remove the front bumper with his wheel.Before it I had an N reg Vectra and an L reg Audi 80 estate, as much as I loved the Audi, the mondeo far outdrives and out performs them both.I still drive the 87 323 more though!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Indeed. When it arrived in 1993 the Mondeo was widely acclaimed to be vastly better than anything else in its class including the 405 (which took some beating). I rented a few for my Oxford - Darlington trips with work and enjoyed driving them. They were invariably a doom blue 1.8TD but as an overall package they were excellent and vastly better than anything Ford had made before and it's clear Ford put a great deal of thought into designing it. For real shite appeal you need a red 1.8LX on the L plate. None of this facelift Mark 2 nonsense.

[Jazzy Jeff]

There was no excuse for the early Vectra to be as bad as it was. the Cavalier was actually a better car and it's not often a big manufacturer makes a car worse than the one before.

Peugeot managed it with virtually every model after 1998.

I know - why is that? Peugeots used be so pretty (204, 304 and the 504 Coupe) plus they were about the toughest thing on the road after a Merc W114.The 205 was okay as was the 309 and 405 plus my fave, the lush 605. The first really crap car they built was the 106, based on an AX apparently. Really shoddy when you look into them. They just seem to get bigger and uglier with the 308 being a real pig in knickers. PSA seem to be the masters of making cheap rubbish to sell on cheap finance. Well, good luck to them.

The decline in prettyness is due to the fact they severed their long lasting relationship with Pininfarina. I have no idea why they did this, or why for that matter why they then decided to staff their own new styling department with a group of Chimpanzees with Wax Crayons.

[retrogeezer]

a group of Chimpanzees with Wax Crayons.

They would have done a better job!