Thoughts on fuel prices

[willswitchengage]

Increase them.

 

What?

 

Yes, and abandon road tax, so that the total Gov't revenue remains the same.

 

Theory: I, like the majority here, own a pre-2001 car with an engine above 1549cc (mine by 31cc!) and therefore pay a rather high tax rate of £215pa. This list of cars pays no road tax, many more "big" cars such as Octavia pay only about £30pa. I only drive about 4-5000 miles a year, whereas many of these new car drivers could be driving up to 20kpa and paying no road tax on that. This seems a little unfair, additionally considering my fuelly shows that I can achieve similar mileage to a new Golf TDI, thus, excluding the quality of emissions, both the 20 year old and brand new vehicle can achieve the same environmental performance - negating much bias in the "tax polluting cars off the road" thinktank. Fuel taxing is the best form of road pricing as not only does it encourage less driving, but encourages people to avoid congestion and rush hour to economise on fuel. Get me so far? If road tax is defined as a tax on road usage then currently it is very discriminatory and not fitting its mandate - higher fuel duty, however, is much fairer IMHO.

[Guest]

What will the 6000 unemployed welsh do?

[Shep Shepherd]

The current fuel price wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to pay for two lots of road tax as well.

[R9UKE]

I enjoy high fuel prices. Means big French V6s really are worth absolutely fuck all.

 

Tax is what pisses me off though. Just like your car, the 1.6 Clio is just into the higher rate of tax. So it's the same to tax as the 540i was.... that really makes sense

[fiatdaft]

Did they not experiment with this around 1980? But after it they left the fuel duty and the r.f.l in place.

[danthecapriman]

Yes fuel prices suck and so does road tax, I hate paying so much for it.

But, its never going to go down, and it will get worse as time goes by no matter who protests/crys about it. Its the number 1 cash cow for the government and they wont ever relent on it.

 

Saying that though id rather pay 215 quid a year tax for my big old barges than drive/own any of the shit heaps on the free tax list! In fact id rather pay double the current price than have one!!

Its not so bad anyway, if you consider what it would be if they made the co2 emissions tax rates apply to pre 2001 cars like many of our cars. My Granada would probably be in the top tax class which is about twice the current cost!

Id agree with scrapping the tax disc and stick it on fuel instead - the more you burn the more you pay, simple and fair.

As it stands the tossers with those shit little free tax cars can drive around as much as they like burning loads of fuel a year for free. I on the other hand do about 2K a year in my Granada (its more of a toy than transport) and pay £215 and the cost of the petrol I use!! How is that fair?

And also it would stop the current problem of people driving without road tax, you wont get any choice but to pay if it was on fuel tax instead.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I am all for it, especially as it will save millions of pounds in administration, enforcement etc, as well as keeping a few more bangers on the road.

 

However, you, I, and everyone else who drives pre-2001 cars, are completely invisible to policymakers and generally people in senior positions, especially in the public sector.

 

Next week, I have a job interview at the University of Nottingham. They've sent me an expenses claim form, they pay 11p per mile. Unless you're driving an LPG-converted car or something completely silly like an Aixam, the only way to achieve such a low figure is by driving a nearly new mingebag diesel, which, of course, is also 'good for the environment'. They can't be doing that just to save money- they'll happily pay the train fare instead, even if 'anytime' tickets often cost around 50p per mile. Therefore, it's fair to say that they obviously assume that everyone who needs a car is affluent enough to spend a few grand on a piece of depreciating metal just to save 5 pence per mile. I'll just tell them "no thanks, there is no point in claiming at that sort of rate".

[Negative Creep]

It's only a matter of time before the government change the tax bands again. As "eco friendly" cars get more popular, the more revnue is lost

[willswitchengage]

Also for the furl price moaners... compared to many of our continental friends we don't have mass toll roads or any vignette system, both of which can be bruddy expensive - especially for HGVs

[worldofceri]

Whilst there's a chance that the rolling nil-road tax bracket will be reinstated, I'd say stick to the current regime. That way there's a decent chance that some more of our old chod will become tax free.

 

Don't forget that the buyers of brand new high end stuff like Range Rovers pay a huge whack on first registration, effectively subsidising the likes of us who will run these cars in 10-20 years time.

[fiatdaft]

And the road tax and insurance is more expensive in at least germany and holland,btw there are 8 countries in europe that are more expensive for fuel than the uk.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Come on, no matter which way you slice it, motor insurance in this country is a fuggin joke.

 

Fuel tax is similar across Europe, road tax differs wildly between countries.

 

The main reason why there are no toll motorways is that the morphology of the ground makes their construction reasonably cheap- you don't need to build super-bridges and massive tunnels like they do in N. Italy.

 

On average, it's not so bad, but road tax is just a pointless administrative exercise. It almost had a purpose before the ANPR days, as it made sure cars had MoT and insurance, but it's had its day and needs to be phased out.

[willswitchengage]

Come on, no matter which way you slice it, motor insurance in this country is a fuggin joke.

 

Something of a self-inflicted wound, however. Insurance Premium tax is pretty low, around 5% I think, so can't blame the Gov't here. Let's face it, we crash a lot of cars. At a recent Triumph assessment centre I was alienated because I hadn't written off a car, back in school years ago again I was flabbergasted by the number of "Daddy bought me another Mini"s after they drank drove on their phones in a mist of fake tan.

 

Oh then there's injurylawyers4u... My housemate, a 22 year old med-student, got rear-ended the other week - swapped details with the (fortunately) friendly antagonist. When she rang to make a claim: "Does your neck hurt?" "A little..." "You have whiplash". At no point has she seen a medical professional but has been offered, without asking, a four-figure compensation pot. She says it does actually cane, though...

 

Basically if we all stop crashing and watching daytime TV adverts then we won't be forking out so much.

[catsinthewelder]

I would prefer a system where all the tax was on fuel, under the current system you can't help feeling that you should use the car you're paying twenty quid a month to tax. I usually cycle to work so 95% of the time we only need 1 car and 90% of the time the Austin 1100 will provide everything we need from a car. This makes it even more annoying to be paying £430 a year to tax the other two

 

The cost of fuel is starting to make rail an economic alternative to road transport for freight, part of me is happy to pay a little more at the pump for this to happen.

[fiatdaft]

Thats your choice though to have 3 cars,I have 3 cars taxed mot'd and insured its my choice so i pay up,i also don't think my car insurance is that expensive.

 

Luxo as you are always moaning about how bad this country is,why don't you do something about it?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Well, I am not moaning about 'this country'. I am talking about specific things that are mostly easy to fix...I'd much rather be here than in Syria or China (let alone Greece!). I am involved in the city centre residents' action group, but can't really do much more than that, apart from sending e-mails and letters complaining about this, that and the other whenever I have a valid reason (case in point: I reported Shitcover to the Ombudsman last year for their false 'no admin fee for policy changes' promise).

 

Come on, no matter which way you slice it, motor insurance in this country is a fuggin joke.

Î’asically if we all stop crashing and watching daytime TV adverts then we won't be forking out so much.

 

We've talked about this 492347294273297 times. Of course there are various legitimate factors which inflate the cost of insurance, but the industry operates as a cartel and makes money from claims (google 'credit hire'). Having to pay a few hundred quid for insurance isn't a tragedy by itself. However, being forced to buy things that you don't have to (i.e fire, theft, own-damage cover), being unable to insure your dad who's retired to Spain for driving your car (which you already pay hundreds to insure) for two weeks and paying an extortionate APR as a 'finance' charge for paying by instalments then having your insurance cancelled at the first sight of a bank cock-up (why do they charge such a massive APR if there is no real 'credit risk'? They're paid every month in advance and will just cancel if you don't pay) are things which just don't happen in a market that's not ridiculously distorted.

[retrogeezer]

3 pre-2001 cars here, all over 1549cc (2 of them by 40-50cc) so all cost £215 to tax. In total between all 3 cars we do about 7000 miles a year so not great value for money here.

[fiatdaft]

As i have said many time before insurance here is cheaper than a couple that i know off in euroland and i do not think my insurance is expensive,anyway back on topic as its a fuel price thread.

 

Again retro ,your choice to have 3 and do so little mileage.

[willswitchengage]

credit hire

 

Makes sense, my housemate had her '61 courtesy Focus for about three weeks whilst the Fiesta was repaired - puzzling considering it takes only a few hours to go from a pile of parts in Cologne to a finished product and another few days as it's shipped to our shores to a dealer. When my ageing Dad crashed his Astra last the damage report stated a damaged front wing and bumper. Naturally, the "authorised garage" (20 miles away) replaced the front door too.

 

Back to fuel pricing...

[Pete-M]

69p / litre. I'm not complaining.

[Ross_K]

Also for the furl price moaners... compared to many of our continental friends we don't have mass toll roads or any vignette system, both of which can be bruddy expensive - especially for HGVs

 

Got my road tax renewal for the Xantia today - 660 euro for a year. Unleaded's €1.62 a litre.

 

And to top it off we have fucking motorway tolls because the huge amounts we pay in road tax aren't used to build or maintain roads, but to fund shite like waterfowl conservation and disabled lesbian consultation groups...

 

Give me strength.

[cms206]

As it stands, if fuel wasn't quite as expensive it would be cheaper for me to run my Leyland National 2s than either of my cars - £215 a year for road tax (11143cc) and about £200 a year to insure, including nationwide recovery. The 6.5mpg from the non-turbo 680 powered one and 8.5mpg from the turbo TL11-245 one tend to piss on the chips of that idea though.

 

I'd be in favour of something along the lines of the Czech system - if you wish to use ANY motorway or selected main roads, you buy a sticker in 1 week, 1, 3, 6 or 12 month flavours and display it. This could be linked to ANPR which could send out fines for not having a sticker. In fairness I'd also be pushing for insurance to be regulated in a similar fashion to the Czech system but I daresay that'd be pushing the boat out too far.

 

Fuel's already expensive enough without putting more coin onto it, it's nearly a hundred quid to fill my old dear's Motability Mondeo diesel; £215 won't get you far in pez nowadays, even if you do only do 2000 miles a year.

[willswitchengage]

Oh dear! That does put things a little in perspective.

 

http://www.vrt.ie/roadtax.php

 

Say, I want to emigrate with my 1580cc BX (45mpg), that's 478 euros PA.

 

Or, if I'd kept my old 2002 Fabia 1.9D (70mpg), that's 626 euros PA.

 

Or if I wanted a tasty Laguna V6, (6mpg), that's 1390 euros PA.

 

What are your roads made from, those lesbian consultants?

 

I have always found it strange, however, that you can register practically anything (often big old trucks) for that £215 rate.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Road tax in Greece is similarly mental for anything above 1.8ish.

[Cavcraft]

I don't really see why we should accept high fuel prices just because it's dearer in germany or whatever. On that principle then maybe we should shoot people for allegedly not paying tax like they do in China or stone women for some daft reason like they do elsewhere.

 

I'm against chucking the cost of road tax on fuel because everytime the government fancy another pointless war or Cameron and his wanker cronies want to throw thousands of disabled people on the dole, they'll just lob a few pence on a litre on an almost daily basis.

[Albert Ross]

I get about 21mpg from my heavily laden Diesel Land Rover. OK, that's thirsty, but road tax is free, and insurance is £85 a year. Sure, £215 isn't a lot to save, but it's a saving in my direction. The Sierra would be the full rate tax, about £140 to insure, and do about 40mpg if treated correctly (1.8 CVH). Even the modern in the fleet is £170 a year to tax...... but £400 to insure, and only averages about 35 mpg. A friend of mine has just bought a brand spanking Corsa 1.7 Diesel SRi. (Believe it or not, I recommended it.. Isuzu engine, and 300Nm with a dropped chassis... FUN) The first year tax was free, then after that it's £30 p.a. His insurance dropped by £350 p.a. after having a 4 year old Corsa 1.2....... It must be the multiple airbags in this case.... it seems bloody good on fuel so far, even running in. He's seen a steady 68mpg on a cruise, and about 48 round town! Oh, and it's Orange! Lucky git.

[eddyramrod]

Road tax in Greece is similarly mental for anything above 1.8ish.

 

Likewise in Cyprus. And fuel prices are creeping up towards UK levels too, I've seen them rise by 30-40 cents per litre in the 3 years I've been here.

[retrogeezer]

Again retro ,your choice to have 3 and do so little mileage.

 

It is, but it doesn't mean I have to be happy about it does it!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I don't really see why we should accept high fuel prices just because it's dearer in germany or whatever. On that principle then maybe we should shoot people for allegedly not paying tax like they do in China or stone women for some daft reason like they do elsewhere.

 

Completely agreed. We shouldn't be trying to copy the bad things from elsewhere- there are plenty of good ideas that we could take advantage of instead.

[Tayne]

I'm against chucking the cost of road tax on fuel because everytime the government fancy another pointless war or Cameron and his wanker cronies want to throw thousands of disabled people on the dole, they'll just lob a few pence on a litre on an almost daily basis.

 

This.

You really have to believe that the government won't shaft the motorist (even more than they do at the moment) by hiking that duty even more.

Do you trust them?

 

 

Also, can someone who knows about HGV mileage/RFL/mpg tell me what the effect of no road tax but an extra 25p a litre on diesel would be?

Once we've all picked ourselves up off the floor we can then try and work out how big a price increase that would equate to on everything we buy!