project 1980 Austin Princess

[plasticvandan]

A nice clean up,prep,lay all the bits out ready over weekend will make the reverse of the above much nicer next week

[Mally]

That's the first Garage I've ever seen with empty shelves.

[Asimo]

One of the things I have long liked about the Princess & Ambassador is that when* you see one on the road, driving toward you, it is possible to tell if it is manual or automatic from the shape of the transmission sump. If you could see a pair of steel pipes at the offside by the sump, then it had power steering.

 

**They really were a very common sight for twenty odd years.

[320touring]

Excellent work on this chap - I can see it's frustrating and rewarding at the same time!

[Skizzer]

Great thread as ever - just been catching up. Excellent work on the suspension especially, and looking forward to imminent victory in the Battle of the Clutch.

 

One of the things I have long liked about the Princess & Ambassador is that when* you see one on the road, driving toward you, it is possible to tell if it is manual or automatic from the shape of the transmission sump. If you could see a pair of steel pipes at the offside by the sump, then it had power steering.

Olympic class levels of geekery here. Massive respect.

[MikeKnight]

What a right arse of a job this is. Though it's been fun figuring stuff out.

 

Never in all the vehicles I've worked on have I had to drop/remove an engine to change a clutch.

 

GT6 was the next worst that I've done I'd say as you pull the gearbox up and through the car cabin. Making sure to spill oil from the leaky overdrive all over your carpet, naturally.

[vulgalour]

hahahahahaha  you forgot about the four weeks we had to spend doing the Xantia clutch.  I think it was four weeks.  I'm pretty sure that job aged us all by at least ten years, even the people reading the updates.

[vulgalour]

I have failed to do anything on this at all this weekend, been knocked down with Winter Lurg  #4a.  What I have done is found and ordered a complete bottom end gasket and seal set, new gear selector rod seals (because the ones I do have seem to have fallen into the Sock Dimension) and yet another pair of mirrors that were an impulsive purchase because they just might be less hassle than trying to get the last new pair I bought to actually fit the car in a way that I can actually see them when driving.  I do love my  black wing mirrors but they're a proper arse when you're trying to do anything in the engine bay that involves leaning over the side, like changing the clutch, so door mirrors would be mor e betterer providing they're not the rubbish originals.

[richardthestag]

good work

 

re that oil pressure sender, on da staaag it is a tapered thread, i.e. over tightening can crack the alloy transfer plate that it screws into. 

 

while you have good access double check that it hasnt been over tightened and busted something.

[Asimo]

Ambassador door mirrors are pretty good.......

[RayMK]

I have failed to do anything on this at all this weekend, been knocked down with Winter Lurg  #4a.  What I have done is found and ordered a complete bottom end gasket and seal set, new gear selector rod seals (because the ones I do have seem to have fallen into the Sock Dimension) and yet another pair of mirrors that were an impulsive purchase because they just might be less hassle than trying to get the last new pair I bought to actually fit the car in a way that I can actually see them when driving.  I do love my  black wing mirrors but they're a proper arse when you're trying to do anything in the engine bay that involves leaning over the side, like changing the clutch, so door mirrors would be mor e betterer providing they're not the rubbish originals.

 

Love the reference to "The Sock Dimension.'  Quantum Physics really needs to bring this on board. Unlike some of the silly other dimensional stuff they've invented to make the mathematics work, the Sock Dimension is a real and observable effect.

 

I've never liked clutch changes on front drive transverse engined cars but someone at BL obviously studied the known problems of access in order to incorporate as many as possible in the Princess.  The Citroen CX is another one which will leave you hairless and broke.

[vulgalour]

Asimo: but then I'd need Ambassador doors because you can't fit Ambo mirrors to the Princess, they changed the window frame.

[plasticvandan]

Just a wild idea,but would Princess mirrors fit?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

 

 

 

 

Instead we admitted defeat and resigned ourselves to having to pull the engine.  

 

 

 

 

Told you.

[vulgalour]

PVD: yes, but they're rubbish, which is why I got rid of them.

 

TRB:  I try to be optimistic and not listen to reason.  It never works, but I keep trying.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

....  The Citroen CX is another one which will leave you hairless and broke.

....which is why I bought an automatic one

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

PVD: yes, but they're rubbish, which is why I got rid of them.

 

TRB:  I try to be optimistic and not listen to reason.  It never works, but I keep trying.

 

 

 

Ha! 

 

I reckon if you were to build a house, you'd try and put the roof on first. God bless ya. 

[vulgalour]

Is building a house not like washing a car then?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I must admit that when I was changing my Ambassador clutch back in the day it panned out exactly like this, I was sure that I could do it without dropping the engine. I couldn't obv but still spent ages trying.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I must admit that when I was changing my Ambassador clutch back in the day it panned out exactly like this, I was sure that I could do it without dropping the engine. I couldn't obv but still spent ages trying.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I must admit that when I was changing my Ambassador clutch back in the day it panned out exactly like this, I was sure that I could do it without dropping the engine. I couldn't obv but still spent ages trying.

 

Four cylinder - no chance.

 

Six cylinder - yup. Despite being wider.

 

Issigonis must have been a frustrated gynaecologist and practiced painting his front hallway via the letterbox.

 

Only BMC/BL would end up with a state of affairs such as this. Disgraceful I say.

[plasticvandan]

Issigonis had nothing to do with these awful wedge shaped things,or the allegro,or the marina...mmm seems theres a pattern emerging.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Issigonis designed the 1800 power unit and it's weird arse about face clutch. It was to use the standard B Series block and crank with a flywheel bolted to the end, not spinning on a primary gear as per the Mini. Yet the Maxi engine was an Issigonnafail? design and the Princess/Allegro were basically improved/ruined (delete as appropriate) Issigonnawork? designs.

[plasticvandan]

He didnt design the bodywork that shrouded it all to make it harder to work on though (unless the 1800/maxi was also a ballache,in which case i will gladly retract)

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The 18/22 was much, much easier to work on. Also much less rot prone and a better car all round although I do like an 18/85.

 

A good 2000 Princess does/did drive very well.

[vulgalour]

I'd rather work on this than a Mini, that's all I'm saying on the subject.

 

---

 

Today was all about the dirt and taking even more things out of the engine bay.  This has been both fortuitious and annoying.  I wanted to remove the scruffy steel coolant pipe that runs under the radiator both to tidy it up and for better dirt removal access.  The first annoyance was the old wire clips which, as is usual, needed cutting off since they're were seized completely solid.  I'll be replacing them with jubilee clips as I've done elsewhere when working on the car.

20180115-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

As soon as I removed one of the clips that clamps the pipe to the radiator support brackets, water started coming out.  That's not a great thing to have happen and I knew what to expect.  Sure enough, there's a big hole caused by corrosion.  Even more annoying is my spare pipe I salvaged from the orange car has perforated in the same place to a lesser degree.   I'll either get one of the originals repaired or a new one made up in copper or stainless, dependant on cost.  I haven't got a pipe bender to DIY this so someone else can make it for me.  It's a normal failure on a Princess this one, I've seen a few other cars with the same issue.

20180115-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

After that and moving a few things out of the way, it was the tedious chore of removing the grease.  It did look like underseal until I started cleaning it off and found that it's very clearly old engine oil and road grime so at least it wasn't too tough going to remove.  There's a few areas where the paint has come off and surface corrosion has started so I'll get those bits dealt with and repainted while I'm in doing the rest of it.  I'll also go around with some thinners  on a rag to get rid of as much of the rubbish overspray that's all over the engine bay which will go some way to cleaning things up and making it all that bit more uniform.  Happily I haven't uncovered any horrors,  just bits that need cosmetic fettling.

20180115-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20180115-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20180115-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20180115-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

It's looking much nicer in there now and will be a more pleasant place to work once I'm done.  Made a start on the clutch housing but didn't get far, that's fairly disgusting in comparison and will need a fair bit of effort to sort out.

[Noel Tidybeard]

might i suggest citreon cx mirrors they seem to be so cool that even mclaren used them on the f1

[vulgalour]

You may suggest CX mirrors.  I've never seen an affordable set and they're not really right for what I want to do, but they do look like a good mirror.

 

---

 

Useful things arrived in the post today in the form of many, many seals and gaskets.

20181701-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Before I can fit those, I need to finish tidying up the engine bay, mostly by getting rid of the woeful  overpainting that has been coming off every time I clean up in the engine bay.  Now is the best time to get rid of it.  I'm not sure what paint was used, it's  quite thin in most places and applied by brush.  There's no prep underneath but it's pretty stubborn to remove.  I was going to use thinners initially but decided on 400 grit paper so I could deal with the rust blebs at the same time and prep the surfaces for fresh paint.

20181701-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

After a while of sanding I'd got about a third of the surfaces cleaned up and ready for the next stage.  Nice and smooth now without the multiple paint layers so hopefully I won't get issues with paint reactions when I put the fresh top coat on.

20181701-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

There was a suspiciously thick bit of paint around this area and some surface corrosion.  Hit it with a wire wheel to reveal nice clean metal so I'm not really sure what's going on in this area.  There's also  quite a lot of little dents and paint chips on this arch,  I'm guessing from a less than careful engine removal in the past when the clutch was last done since all the damage lines up with bits on the pulley side of the engine.

20181701-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

For ease of access, I removed the heater hoses and unbolted the brake lines.  I didn't want to remove the brake lines completely, I'm trying to avoid turning this into restoration work since it's only supposed to be a freshen up while the engine is out.  It will all be done more properly if I ever get the funds together for a  proper repaint in the future.   Just seems silly not to tackle all these scruffy areas while I have good access.  All the little bits of corrosion, bad paint and such were cleaned back and flatted down to an acceptable degree before getting a good dose of rust converter.

20181701-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I'm going to have to remove the brake servo and clutch master  cylinder to do the paint in that area and since I can do that with the engine back in I'm leaving that corner alone for now.  I'll do the inner arch this side before the engine goes back in as it too has that horrible overpaint that needs flatting off, I just didn't have enough time to do that today.

20181701-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

You can see where I've been today at least.  Took a few hours because it's all fiddly and has to be done by hand since I don't want to go back to bare metal on this.

20181701-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Tomorrow I'll get the engine mounts removed,  degrease anything I've missed and hopefully get the rest of the paint prep completed.  I'm going to be slowed down by paint drying times too, it's not too cold for painting, it's just cold enough that drying times are longer than usual.  At least there's not really any rust to speak of on the areas left to deal with now.  The other job I'll need to do is replacing the coolant hose and I'm going to try using the rubber coolant hose we have with two connectors to link it to the existing rubber hoses instead of getting a custom metal one made.  It's not a high pressure system so the clamps and brackets should be sufficient to keep a rubber hose in place and since I've already got the bits to do this the cost is  £0 and there's no need to wait on parts or things to be made.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

You may suggest CX mirrors.  I've never seen an affordable set and they're not really right for what I want to do, but they do look like a good mirror.....

With a CX-style mirror body going for about £150 each (more if aimed at TVR / Lotus / MVS Venturi), that's probably not a practical proposition.

[D Spares & Tyres]

You are brave, painting at this time of year. I never bother til springtime, mine either blooms badly or gets microblisters!