Jump to content


Welcome to Autoshite

Welcome to Autoshite, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Autoshite by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Customize your experience here
Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo

1980 Austin Princess - 21/01 Update


  • Please log in to reply
2691 replies to this topic

#2641 OFFLINE   Tadhg Tiogar

Tadhg Tiogar

    Rank: Austin Maxi

  • Full Members
  • 343 posts
  • 3 thanks
  • LocationNot currently in Ireland
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:36 PM



....I can't imagine trying to get hold of a Whitworth 1 sized nut is going to be particularly easy.

 

Any good?


  • mat_the_cat and vulgalour like this
F*ck your Honda Civic, I've a horse outside,
F*ck your Subaru, I have a horse outside.
And f*ck your Mitsubishi, I've a horse outside,
If you're lookin' for a ride, I've got a horse outside

#2642 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:10 PM

The internet is amazing!



#2643 OFFLINE   Asimo

Asimo

    Hondamatic

  • Full Members
  • 4,585 posts
  • 17 thanks
  • LocationRe-booting....
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:05 PM

That isn't an anti-roll bar (Dr. Moulton would turn in his grave) it is a tie bar that reinforces the lower suspension arm mounts against one another: rather like a strut-brace but in tension rather than compression.

Thanked by 1 Member:
vulgalour

#2644 ONLINE   Parky

Parky

    Get a Horse in

  • Full Members
  • 3,990 posts
  • 15 thanks
  • LocationHe'll nail it first time
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:18 PM

Jeez, what a palaver. What would the trainees at Mr Clutch make of this?

#2645 OFFLINE   beko1987

beko1987

    Reliable Renault

  • Full Members
  • 12,373 posts
  • 33 thanks
  • LocationThame, Oxon
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:30 PM

Jeez, what a palaver. What would the trainees at Mr Clutch make of this?


You see, that's just the sort of shit I'd do if I won the euromillions! (so I could pay for it if they surprisingly did manage to do it)

That and buy a ropey xm, or gooner 2 ph2 or similar, rock up to the main dealer and say "do everything"
  • richardthestag, Parky, Dick Longbridge and 4 others like this
<p>2001 Gooner2 Ph1 1.9Dci Expression (His)<br>
2008 <strike>orl</strike> Vauxhall<strike>s</strike> <strike>r Shit</strike> Zafira 1.8 SRI 140 (Hers)

#2646 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

coalnotdole

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 745 posts
  • 2 thanks

Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:41 AM

They're serviceable so I'll just reuse them.  I can't imagine trying to get hold of a Whitworth 1 sized nut is going to be particularly easy.

 

Is the thread definately Whitworth? It could it be a UNF / UNC thread that the whitworth spanner was just coincedentally a good fit?

 

There are a number of spaners sizes that are interchangable between AF and Whitworth. For example 1/4" Whitworth is an equivilent to 1/2" AF.

 

I don't think many mass produced cars from the mid 70's routinely used whitworth threads. As they were mainly replaced by UNF / UNC in the early 1960's. (Naturally British leyland may turn out to be an exception!)


http://www.redrebel.co.uk - A blog about restoration projects...!

http://www.abandoned-britain.com - Photographing Modern Ruins
http://www.industrialarchive.co.uk - A collection of objects, writings, documents, films and photos

#2647 ONLINE   alf892

alf892

    Rank: Renault 16

  • Full Members
  • 2,033 posts
  • 4 thanks
  • LocationNorthants
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:31 AM

Is the thread definately Whitworth? It could it be a UNF / UNC thread that the whitworth spanner was just coincedentally a good fit?

 

There are a number of spaners sizes that are interchangable between AF and Whitworth. For example 1/4" Whitworth is an equivilent to 1/2" AF.

 

I don't think many mass produced cars from the mid 70's routinely used whitworth threads. As they were mainly replaced by UNF / UNC in the early 1960's. (Naturally British leyland may turn out to be an exception!)

1/4 whit is not a good sub for 1/2 AF...........but your point very true.

 

The one I always remember is the older truck trailer wheel nuts which were 1 and 5/16AF which is 3/4 whit. Also same size as most A series crank pully.



#2648 OFFLINE   coalnotdole

coalnotdole

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 745 posts
  • 2 thanks

Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:46 AM

1/4 whit is not a good sub for 1/2 AF...........but your point very true.

 

The one I always remember is the older truck trailer wheel nuts which were 1 and 5/16AF which is 3/4 whit. Also same size as most A series crank pully.

 

Fair enough, my Knowledge on AF / whitworth spanner interchange might not be good as I thought! 

 

I tend to use new nuts and bolts and old but cared for Britool spanners so my experience of what works with what may not be universal.


  • alf892 likes this
http://www.redrebel.co.uk - A blog about restoration projects...!

http://www.abandoned-britain.com - Photographing Modern Ruins
http://www.industrialarchive.co.uk - A collection of objects, writings, documents, films and photos

#2649 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:19 PM

I wouldn't have considered Whitworth either except for the fact the book states it to be that size and the spanner does fit.  The Imperial size is peculiar too.  I understood Whitworth fell out of regular use in the 1950s and with this gearbox having its engineering roots in the 1960s (Landcrab, Maxi, etc.) or possibly extremely late 1950s (release of the Mini) it's probably unlikely to find anything of that type in here.  Having said that, the rest of the engine bay does use a mix of predominately Metric fixings with one or two Imperial bits thrown in so who knows?  Perhaps BL just had a surfeit of Whitworth nuts left over, perhaps they're not Whitworth but something that's an exact match for the head and a different thread?

 

Safest to re-use the original since it's good enough to do so I reckon.


  • richardthestag likes this

#2650 ONLINE   Mr_Bo11ox

Mr_Bo11ox

    Rank: Matra Rancho towing a Tagora

  • Full Members
  • 23,204 posts
  • 31 thanks
  • LocationUttoxeter/Derby
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:40 PM

The O-series engine has metric nuts and bolts but the gearbox is Landcrab technology, so 1960's designed to go under a B-series, and is therefore imperial. Brilliant innit!!!

 

I would use the nut again defo, a bit of chisel damage is nowt to worry about on a nut that size.


PIGEONZ NEST

CHECK OUT MY AWARD-WINNING SHITE-FIXING BLOG HERE

"THE 2.3 POWERTRAIN IS A SILENT IS AS A FISH, AND IT PULLS LIKE A GREAT"
"The engine has airbrushed skulls on it"

"Car shows are full of mentals talking tosh"

"I promised her I would waxoyl her Polo"


#2651 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:06 PM

Clutch Change Part Three.

Mr B put it best when he said "I did this job years ago and I found it to be a right shitehawk."  He was not wrong.  The first time you do a job always takes the longest because you're learning how to do it, in the future I'm pretty sure I could shave a couple of hours off  the time spent simply because I know what needs coming out now and what to expect.

 

So, to recap, to do the clutch on the Princess you have to drain the oil and the coolant first.  No really.  The engine has to come out whatever you do so you might as well do these jobs now because it's unavoidable.  Then you unfasten everything that joins the engine to the car with the exception of the driveshafts, those you can leave alone happily.  Princess is due a proper oil change anyway and even though the coolant was done less than a year ago, it too was looking ready for a refresh and now is as good a time as any to do it.  Here's the oil that came out, all 6 litres or so of it.

24783306057_572b55e237_b.jpg20180112-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Because Mike and I were still learning, we thought there was a chance we could get enough movement by removing one engine mount and bracket that was fouling the clutch housing, so we did that first.

38755580165_d6b355732c_b.jpg20180112-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

It didn't help enough and we wasted time faffing about with engine angles before giving that up as a bad job.  Really frustratingly close though!

24783305927_85d6eb5670_b.jpg20180112-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

24783305617_f65c8202ca_b.jpg20180112-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Instead we admitted defeat and resigned ourselves to having to pull the engine.  That meant disconnecting the coolant hoses and draining the coolant, disconnecting the rest of the exhaust, unbolting the remote gear selector box, the vacuum line for the servo, removing the carburettor and air cleaner from the manifold  and disconnecting the speedo cable.  We also removed the radiator, normally you wouldn't have to but I have a Rover fan fitted on the opposite side to standard and the motor was catching on the oil fill pipe and distributor.  I've got a spare original fan I'm going to test and if it's good, I'll fit that in the stock location because it's tidier and should be perfectly effective enough, my last original one was until it got all out of shape and ate its own fan blades.

 

There's enough articulation in the driveshafts to safely and carefully lower the engine on the jack without disconnecting the driveshafts  so we did that.  We were concerned we'd have to remove the driveshafts too, which is even more work that seems excessive just for a clutch change.

24783305407_fa445b8df0_b.jpg20180112-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

38755581195_b63987c0a8_b.jpg20180112-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

With all that dropped down I can get to a lot of the greasy bits of the engine bay I couldn't before and get those cleaned up properly.  I can also get the bits of the engine degreased that I couldn't previously get to so that will also cut down on the amount of unpleasant road grime and oil sludge that's on the outside of the engine in places.  Discovered that one of the leaks looks to be the oil pressure sender so I'm going to remove and reseal that to hopefully get rid of the messiest leak the car has.  The distributor O ring is leaking again too, which is really annoying because it's a chore to replace and I can't find the new gear selector seals I bought so I'm going to have to order another set, at which point the set I bought will undoubtedly turn up.

 

Happily, dropping the engine out the bottom like this meant the clutch housing came off really easily and there's plenty of access to get at the clutch and fixings so it shouldn't be a nightmare to bolt back together again.

38755580885_2cdb7d83fa_b.jpg20180112-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

38755580505_53a31e6a59_b.jpg20180112-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then my alarm beeped so it was time-up for today.  I'm hoping to get in on the weekend and give things a thorough clean and degrease and potentially get everything back together Monday/Tuesday since a lot of it is really a job for two people if you want to do it safely and in some cases it's just easier when there's two pairs of hands, particularly for things like the engine mounts which are a bit awkward to get at.  Until the next update, here's where we leave things.

 

38755579955_5f99204caa_b.jpg20180112-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


  • richardthestag, danthecapriman, Skizzer and 9 others like this

#2652 ONLINE   plasticvandan

plasticvandan

    Rank: Citroen Ami

  • Full Members
  • 1,983 posts
  • 3 thanks
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

A nice clean up,prep,lay all the bits out ready over weekend will make the reverse of the above much nicer next week :-)

#2653 OFFLINE   Mally

Mally

    Rank: Citroen Ami

  • Full Members
  • 1,530 posts
  • 20 thanks
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:07 PM

That's the first Garage I've ever seen with empty shelves.


  • KruJoe, richardthestag, alf892 and 1 other like this

#2654 OFFLINE   Asimo

Asimo

    Hondamatic

  • Full Members
  • 4,585 posts
  • 17 thanks
  • LocationRe-booting....
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:22 PM

One of the things I have long liked about the Princess & Ambassador is that when* you see one on the road, driving toward you, it is possible to tell if it is manual or automatic from the shape of the transmission sump. If you could see a pair of steel pipes at the offside by the sump, then it had power steering.

**They really were a very common sight for twenty odd years.
  • Pillock, cobblers, Skizzer and 2 others like this

#2655 ONLINE   320touring

320touring

    Rank: Isuzu Florian

  • Full Members
  • 8,427 posts
  • 21 thanks

Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:58 PM

Excellent work on this chap - I can see it's frustrating and rewarding at the same time!
Read about my chod based adventures here:
http://fuguttycars.wordpress.com/

#2656 ONLINE   Skizzer

Skizzer

    Rank: Tommek Dirtbeast

  • Full Members
  • 5,616 posts
  • 25 thanks
  • LocationMumbles
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:14 PM

Great thread as ever - just been catching up. Excellent work on the suspension especially, and looking forward to imminent victory in the Battle of the Clutch.

One of the things I have long liked about the Princess & Ambassador is that when* you see one on the road, driving toward you, it is possible to tell if it is manual or automatic from the shape of the transmission sump. If you could see a pair of steel pipes at the offside by the sump, then it had power steering.


Olympic class levels of geekery here. Massive respect.
  • cobblers, RayMK and chodweaver like this
75N Vauxhall 2300S | 76P Lotus Elite | 76P Renault 16TL | 79T Rover 3500 | 82X Lancia Gamma Coupe | 82Y Jaguar XJ-S HE | 83A Jaguar Sovereign 4.2 | 84B Talbot-Matra Rancho | 85C Ford Granada 2.8 estate | 91H Audi 80 2.0E | 91J VW Golf Rivage cabrio | 99T Land Rover Discovery V8 | 06 Alfa Brera 2.2JTS | 14 BMW 428i

#2657 OFFLINE   MikeKnight

MikeKnight

    Rank: Austin Maxi

  • Full Members
  • 463 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • LocationTeesside
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:36 AM

What a right arse of a job this is. Though it's been fun figuring stuff out.

 

Never in all the vehicles I've worked on have I had to drop/remove an engine to change a clutch.

 

GT6 was the next worst that I've done I'd say as you pull the gearbox up and through the car cabin. Making sure to spill oil from the leaky overdrive all over your carpet, naturally.



#2658 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:47 AM

hahahahahaha  you forgot about the four weeks we had to spend doing the Xantia clutch.  I think it was four weeks.  I'm pretty sure that job aged us all by at least ten years, even the people reading the updates.



#2659 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 06:10 PM

I have failed to do anything on this at all this weekend, been knocked down with Winter Lurg  #4a.  What I have done is found and ordered a complete bottom end gasket and seal set, new gear selector rod seals (because the ones I do have seem to have fallen into the Sock Dimension) and yet another pair of mirrors that were an impulsive purchase because they just might be less hassle than trying to get the last new pair I bought to actually fit the car in a way that I can actually see them when driving.  I do love my  black wing mirrors but they're a proper arse when you're trying to do anything in the engine bay that involves leaning over the side, like changing the clutch, so door mirrors would be mor e betterer providing they're not the rubbish originals.


  • richardthestag and RayMK like this

#2660 OFFLINE   richardthestag

richardthestag

    Rank: Renault 16

  • Full Members
  • 2,581 posts
  • 12 thanks
  • LocationBuckinghamshite and Devonshite
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 06:12 PM

good work

 

re that oil pressure sender, on da staaag it is a tapered thread, i.e. over tightening can crack the alloy transfer plate that it screws into. 

 

while you have good access double check that it hasnt been over tightened and busted something.


Shitroen C4 GP 2007 1.6HDi - Wife's daily written off, farewell trusty but slightly unpredictable steed

Pug 307 - son's daily runner Sold to Arthur Foxhake

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag might be up 4sayle soon

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover 1969 SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - sold to hhhugues

 


#2661 OFFLINE   Asimo

Asimo

    Hondamatic

  • Full Members
  • 4,585 posts
  • 17 thanks
  • LocationRe-booting....
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:48 PM

Ambassador door mirrors are pretty good.......

#2662 ONLINE   RayMK

RayMK

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 748 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • LocationMidlands
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:01 PM

I have failed to do anything on this at all this weekend, been knocked down with Winter Lurg  #4a.  What I have done is found and ordered a complete bottom end gasket and seal set, new gear selector rod seals (because the ones I do have seem to have fallen into the Sock Dimension) and yet another pair of mirrors that were an impulsive purchase because they just might be less hassle than trying to get the last new pair I bought to actually fit the car in a way that I can actually see them when driving.  I do love my  black wing mirrors but they're a proper arse when you're trying to do anything in the engine bay that involves leaning over the side, like changing the clutch, so door mirrors would be mor e betterer providing they're not the rubbish originals.

 

Love the reference to "The Sock Dimension.'  Quantum Physics really needs to bring this on board. Unlike some of the silly other dimensional stuff they've invented to make the mathematics work, the Sock Dimension is a real and observable effect.

 

I've never liked clutch changes on front drive transverse engined cars but someone at BL obviously studied the known problems of access in order to incorporate as many as possible in the Princess.  The Citroen CX is another one which will leave you hairless and broke.


  • vulgalour and Stanky like this

#2663 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:19 PM

Asimo: but then I'd need Ambassador doors because you can't fit Ambo mirrors to the Princess, they changed the window frame.



#2664 ONLINE   plasticvandan

plasticvandan

    Rank: Citroen Ami

  • Full Members
  • 1,983 posts
  • 3 thanks
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:21 PM

Just a wild idea,but would Princess mirrors fit?

#2665 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

The Reverend Bluejeans

    I blame Thatcher

  • Full Members
  • 6,305 posts
  • 16 thanks
  • LocationOn the bog reading Car Mechanics
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:23 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Instead we admitted defeat and resigned ourselves to having to pull the engine.  

 

 

 

 

Told you.


MASTER RACE MOTORS.

 

1989 F  730i. Prestigious.

1998 S  E36 318i Touring. Daily shitter.

1994 M 318Ti - Track whore


#2666 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:37 PM

PVD: yes, but they're rubbish, which is why I got rid of them.

 

TRB:  I try to be optimistic and not listen to reason.  It never works, but I keep trying. ;)


  • The Reverend Bluejeans likes this

#2667 OFFLINE   Tadhg Tiogar

Tadhg Tiogar

    Rank: Austin Maxi

  • Full Members
  • 343 posts
  • 3 thanks
  • LocationNot currently in Ireland
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 09:07 PM

....  The Citroen CX is another one which will leave you hairless and broke.


....which is why I bought an automatic one :-)
  • RayMK likes this
F*ck your Honda Civic, I've a horse outside,
F*ck your Subaru, I have a horse outside.
And f*ck your Mitsubishi, I've a horse outside,
If you're lookin' for a ride, I've got a horse outside

#2668 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

The Reverend Bluejeans

    I blame Thatcher

  • Full Members
  • 6,305 posts
  • 16 thanks
  • LocationOn the bog reading Car Mechanics
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 09:32 PM

PVD: yes, but they're rubbish, which is why I got rid of them.

 

TRB:  I try to be optimistic and not listen to reason.  It never works, but I keep trying. ;)

 

 

 

Ha!  :-D

 

I reckon if you were to build a house, you'd try and put the roof on first. God bless ya. 


MASTER RACE MOTORS.

 

1989 F  730i. Prestigious.

1998 S  E36 318i Touring. Daily shitter.

1994 M 318Ti - Track whore


#2669 ONLINE   vulgalour

vulgalour

    Rank: Margot Leadbetter

  • Full Members
  • 13,356 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • LocationMucking Fental
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 10:10 PM

Is building a house not like washing a car then?


  • The Reverend Bluejeans likes this

#2670 ONLINE   Mr_Bo11ox

Mr_Bo11ox

    Rank: Matra Rancho towing a Tagora

  • Full Members
  • 23,204 posts
  • 31 thanks
  • LocationUttoxeter/Derby
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 January 2018 - 10:47 PM

I must admit that when I was changing my Ambassador clutch back in the day it panned out exactly like this, I was sure that I could do it without dropping the engine. I couldn't obv but still spent ages trying.

PIGEONZ NEST

CHECK OUT MY AWARD-WINNING SHITE-FIXING BLOG HERE

"THE 2.3 POWERTRAIN IS A SILENT IS AS A FISH, AND IT PULLS LIKE A GREAT"
"The engine has airbrushed skulls on it"

"Car shows are full of mentals talking tosh"

"I promised her I would waxoyl her Polo"





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users