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1980 Austin Princess


vulgalour

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To clear up confusion, this is an O series equipped car, not a B series.  Unleaded friendly from new, as far as I'm aware, so four star (even if I could find it) is unlikely to help.  Had to  do another short run as I'd forgotten something and when I got back, no running on.

 

That's the other issue, sometimes it runs on and sometimes it doesn't and I can't figure a reliable pattern out to that.  Hot starting is improved, at least, which I'm putting down to the aluminium heat shield I made which is an exact copy of the compressed fibre one I salvaged from another car.  The carburettor sits behind the engine on top of the exhaust manifold and there's no easy way to get the hot air out from that bit so it used to refuse to start on a hot day or after it got hot.  Of course, I may have swapped the hot start problem for the dieseling problem by fitting this heat shield, but I'm not sure how that would be.

 

I also noticed the idle screw isn't the tightest fit any more, neither is the mixture screw for that matter, so I suppose it's possible the adjustments are drifting just enough to be a problem but not enough to stop things working.

 

It could also very likely just be a case of TADTS and something I just have to put up with.

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Well I tried timing, plugs, richening idle mix, cooler thermostat, as well as measures of desperation like dwell angle faffing, the 4 star additive that upped the octane, tappets adjusted on the loose side, running around the back and stuffing a carrot up the tailpipe but to no avail. It was a bloody auto so no halting the jaunty percussion solo with the clutch for me, was a Princess as well now I think of it, the old donkey RWD one. I always meant to try seeing if there was a difference between turning off the ignition immediately, and leaving to idle for a while first, but never remembered to.

You could always leave it as is, maybe try and exacerbate it, nice way to stick two fingers up at modern bollocks stop start technology.

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That little dashcam has proved useful with one thing and that's timing the run-on.  Yesterday, when it was really bad, it managed a spectacular 17 seconds.  Today the problem hasn't been apparent, but then I also did a longer drive on purpose, at higher speeds, and that seems to have stopped it running on.  So maybe it is a little coked up from all these short hops I've been doing.  I shall just have to drive it more and faster I guess.

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Interesting development on this in that I might have found part of the problem.  After piddling about with stuff yesterday the car has been well behaved today until I got stuck in traffic on the way home and I noticed the idle was much too high.   Initially I was worried it was that headlight earth problem but the headlights weren't on and it wasn't presenting with a stiff throttle, it was like the throttle was sticking partially open at idle.  Popped the bonnet when I got a chance and sure enough, the throttle arm wasn't returning to rest properly.  A bit of a wiggle and normal function was resumed but looking at the arm and mechanisms everything is covered in grease and dust, probably from the bodywork and welding I've been doing lately, so I'll give that all a clean up and see if this problem goes away.

 

Also, no dieseling today to speak of until I got back after the sticky throttle incident so I suspect this is the actual cause, helped along by higher temperatures the past couple of days and rubbish modern fuel.

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Bit more of an update on this, I feel like I'm getting somewhere with diagnosis.  Degreased and re-greased the mechanism and now the throttle is lovely and smooth but it's still sometimes sticking a little higher than it ought at idle, a carb strip down, clean up, and rebuild looks likely which isn't a huge problem apart from struggling to find a choke cable (I may be able to repurpose a Mini one, not sure yet).  The other thing I found while degreasing the mech is that I had an air leak right where the carb joins the heatshield and/or spacer block which certainly won't be helping matters.

 

I've got it to stop dieseling 95% of the time now, happily, by just cleaning and regreasing the mech.  I reckon I can resolve that 5% by performing a full strip down and clean and fitting new gaskets or gasket goo to the spacer block.  I may even replace the spacer block with a metal one since it's the same as used on the Mini.  I suspect this carburettor is actually just worn out so I'll probably rebuild my spare one since I can live with the one on the car at the moment.

 

This is happily fairly easy tinkering work that's little more than maintenance rather than the rather more annoying problems I was dealing with last year, so I don't mind it so much.

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Before stripping the carb down I wanted to replace the choke cable, the one on the car is badly frayed and deformed at the carb end and I knew it wasn't going to go back in the tiny little hole again.  Trouble is, finding a Princess specific choke cable is something I've never managed to do, so after discovering a few bits are shared with the good old Mini, I took a chance and bought what looked like the same cable for one of those since it was very cheap and not too risky a gamble.

 

Here's how you do it.  First, you need to purchase a  classic Mini choke cable OR a generic one.  I bought a 60" cable because I wasn't sure how long it needed to be but I knew that would be more than enough, there are generic ones available that are shorter.  I also got the one Minimine stock because the handle is as close to identical as you're likely to get to the one that was in the Princess originally.  First job is to undo the tiny nut on the choke cable mechanism at the curburettor.  I used a screwdriver socket drive with a relevant tiny socket on for this since that's easier to get in with than a ratchet.

27494305347_06128c0b39_b.jpg20180526-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then, pull the choke cable through from the inside of the car, leaving the outer sheath in place.  This is important as the outer sheath isn't interchangable with the Mini/generic cable and generally they aren't damaged anyway.  You may find it easier to disconnect one half of the column shroud for rethreading the cable, you may be okay doing it with it in place.  I elected to remove the shroud as it's only two screws, one being next to the choke pull and the other at the bottom of the shroud at about 7 o'clock position as you look at the steering column from the steering wheel end.

27494305227_d825f2e6a2_b.jpg20180526-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

This is the mess that is my old cable.  That's never going to go back in its place and having already been trimmed in the past, there isn't enough cable left to trim it shorter to get back to anything good again.

27494305147_60087b56ec_b.jpg20180526-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

This is the outer sheath of the Mini cable, designed this way so it can be screwed to the dash panel.  This doesn't easily go into the Princess so it's best just to bin this bit, you don't need it (unless you have another car that does, of course).

27494305117_a26c5df6d3_b.jpg20180526-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Here are the cable inners side by side.  The shinier one is the new one.  They have a slightly different shape towards the choke pull end but they are otherwise identical.  The new cable is ever so slightly thicker too.  This is why I suspected this would work.

27494305067_f9444e509d_b.jpg20180526-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then, you thread the new cable from the column shroud end.  I found this easier with the shroud unscrewed from the column so I could line the cable up easier.  Rethreading it is really easy providing your sheath is in good condition and requires no effort at all, which is nice.  Once rethreaded, reattach the column shroud then rethread the cable through the weird nut in the choke mechanism and adjust accordingly.  The only problem with the 60" cable is that it's much too long and does need trimming down.  I haven't got a suitable tool to do this at the moment that will cut the cable without crushing and fraying the end so for now the excess is threaded out of the way down the back of the engine and I'll deal with it later.  A 50-55" cable would be a better fit.

27494304877_d4915d1098_b.jpg20180526-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then time to test.  Pull out the cable and see if it locks properly... and it does!

27494304987_ec02ae50ca_b.jpg20180526-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Unlock the cable and push it back in to make sure it does so smoothly and the light goes out... and it does!

27494304847_053f5eb3a2_b.jpg20180526-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Operation is much smoother and now I know I can safely disconnect throttle and choke cable to rebuild the carb without fear of the cables fraying and being impossible to reinstall.  Less than a tenner to sort and the choke pull looks nicer inside the car since the insert in the old one had broken and come out.  It's nice when a job goes smoothly like that.

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The only problem with the 60" cable is that it's much too long and does need trimming down.  I haven't got a suitable tool to do this at the moment that will cut the cable without crushing and fraying the end so for now the excess is threaded out of the way down the back of the engine and I'll deal with it later.  A 50-55" cable would be a better fit.

 

You could try soldering the cable inner at the appropriate point before cutting it.

This will hold the individual strands together but, unlike crimping on a ferrule, will still allow you to thread it in and out of the solderless nipple in future if required.

 

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That is a very good idea, I shall do that when I trim the cable.

 

I had a moment of inspiration today when thinking about what to use to retrim the faded parcel shelf and remembered the leather I salvaged from a broken sofa we threw out recently.  The back panel was just the right size to do the job and had the added benefit of nice straight seams to add some visual interest rather than being a single flat piece.  Works really well in the car and the grain isn't too far off the factory vinyl so it looks right at home.  It should hold up a bit better against UV than the velvet did.  I didn't cut the speaker holes in the leather as I can do that easily at a later date and the rear speakers aren't wired in yet.  I don't even have a radio in the car at the moment, tunes are low priority for me.
41646827264_3ef94c6dea_b.jpg20180526-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I also put the waist trim back on the boot lid since it wanted to play ball this time.
27500315397_7048ba9db0_b.jpg20180526-10 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

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Re: Twitter post

 

Only difference between reference FZX 1322 and FZX 1285 is the damper.

 

post-19900-0-90742100-1528255193_thumb.jpg

 

post-19900-0-52548200-1528255606_thumb.jpg

 

I'm willing to concede that the old Burlen catalogue may/may not be correct.

 

I looked at this, http://sucarb.co.uk/rebuild-kit-for-hif6-carburettors-suitable-for-morris-marina-ital-princess-applications.html but given the price, I reckon it's a single carb kit. (The price of CRK 144 & CRK 145 kits are up around £90.)

 

Ringing them will give the definitive answer.

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Sorry to hear about the FTP.  At least it was something simple.  Worst place for it to happen though.

 

My Dad once had an FTP like that at a roundabout.  Pulled out, then the accelerator died.  Turned out it was the fly-by-wire sender unit under the pedal (it was a modern) that had gone to shit at precisely that moment.  Absolutely horrible feeling to be on a roundabout with limited control.

 

I love the interior of the Princess.  Those seats just look so much more comfortable than most others.

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The running on has pretty much stopped now, it's only an issue when the throttle sticks a little at idle, hence wanting to do the rebuild.

 

Eddie:  That's the same kit everyone is suggesting.

 

The one oddity on the spare carb is the pipe inlets and outlets.  On the original, there's a fuel in, a fuel overflow, and an oil breather.  On the spare the fuel in is present, the oil breather is present but the fuel overflow is just blank. The overflow location isn't plugged or capped, it's just not there, it's solid casting.  I don't know if this is because the other half of the pair has the overflow or because what looks like the oil breather is actually the overflow.  I'll find out when I dismantle and clean it all.

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